3 ms·

Why would you bother using Swift if you're not targeting Apple? I can imagine wanting to use it for something cross-platform that is primarily an ios/macos thin

Why would you bother using Swift if you're not targeting Apple? I can imagine wanting to use it for something cross-platform that is primarily an ios/macos thing. But if you don't want to include those I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company I don't use. It's a bit like using c# or powershell on Linux. Yes it can be done and it's helpful for cross platform with windows but I wouldn't consider it a first class citizen.

behnamoh 9mo ago
> I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company Hmm... TypeScript: Microsoft Rust: Mozilla Go: Google Java: Oracle By your logic we should be programming in Common Lisp. ========== Edit: - Rust: Mozilla + Rust: Rust Foundation
- scns 9mo ago
  > Rust: Mozilla Nope. Not anymore, several years maybe?
- WD-42 9mo ago
  You forgot the most popular language in the world right now: Python: The Python Software Foundation Turns out two of the best languages don't need corporate overlords to steer their development.
  - geysersam 9mo ago
    Not to mention C, C++, JS, PHP, bash. Hell there are so many great languages not controlled by big companies.
  - tayo42 9mo ago
    Could that happen today though? I think python started in a very different world then today. Alot of its current popularity is becasue big companies developed the libraries that make up the foundation of Ai with it.
- shawn_w 9mo ago
  >... under control of a company I don't use. You left out an important part of the GP's comment. >By your logic we should be programming in Common Lisp. I wish. (Scheme is acceptable too)
  - tialaramex 9mo ago
    I was talking about this at a party this afternoon (yes, I do go to the most interesting parties, thanks) and while Scheme is acceptable the Common Lisp is not because it's not OK to go without boolean primitives. Types are a good idea, if you have types the simplest is clearly the boolean, so start there. I believe firmly that there should be a single true value, which we might reasonably name true, and a single false value, false, other values aren't booleans, so it's no more reasonable to ask whether an empty string is false, than to just forget to close the quote marks on a string. What we wrote isn't a correct program.
    - shawn_w 9mo ago
      Scheme has a single false value (#f) but everything else is considered true...
    - behnamoh 9mo ago
      Any Lisp w/o image support is no true Lisp in my book. That leaves us with only Common Lisp and Janet. The others (Scheme, Clojure, etc.) are just Lispy syntax but lack the true "soul" of Lisp-style development.
      - int_19h 9mo ago
        Racket?
- stackghost 9mo ago
  Common Lisp is actually a great language. The SBCL implementation has a good compiler that produce reasonably fast code, and it's under active development. The only real drawback to common lisp is the fact that the library ecosystem is practically non-existent.
latexr 9mo ago
> Why would you bother using Swift if you're not targeting Apple? For the reasons stated in the article.
MissTake 9mo ago
>I t's a bit like using c# or powershell on Linux… but I wouldn't consider it a first class citizen. C# is very very much a first class citizen on Linux. It may not be native, but you can run binaries on Linux without needing the runtime when you compile it to target the platform. I wrote a couple of monoservices on my Mac using c# which ran perfectly on my Microk8s cluster on Linux.
- mrsmrtss 9mo ago
  I have nearly a decade of experience building .NET C# solutions on Linux and lately also on Mac, with almost everything hosted on Linux via Docker. I’m not sure what’s still missing for it to be accepted into the "first class citizen" club by the Linux elite.
  - metaltyphoon 9mo ago
    The goal post must be moved. I constantly hear “there is no GUI story”… well thats not a core part of the language!
    - mrsmrtss 9mo ago
      There actually is a great GUI story also for Linux today enabled by the excellent Avalonia (https://avaloniaui.net https://avaloniaui.net).

behnamoh 9mo ago

> I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company Hmm... TypeScript: Microsoft Rust: Mozilla Go: Google Java: Oracle By your logic we should be programming in Common Lisp. ========== Edit: - Rust: Mozilla + Rust: Rust Foundation

scns 9mo ago
> Rust: Mozilla Nope. Not anymore, several years maybe?
WD-42 9mo ago
You forgot the most popular language in the world right now: Python: The Python Software Foundation Turns out two of the best languages don't need corporate overlords to steer their development.
- geysersam 9mo ago
  Not to mention C, C++, JS, PHP, bash. Hell there are so many great languages not controlled by big companies.
- tayo42 9mo ago
  Could that happen today though? I think python started in a very different world then today. Alot of its current popularity is becasue big companies developed the libraries that make up the foundation of Ai with it.
shawn_w 9mo ago
>... under control of a company I don't use. You left out an important part of the GP's comment. >By your logic we should be programming in Common Lisp. I wish. (Scheme is acceptable too)
- tialaramex 9mo ago
  I was talking about this at a party this afternoon (yes, I do go to the most interesting parties, thanks) and while Scheme is acceptable the Common Lisp is not because it's not OK to go without boolean primitives. Types are a good idea, if you have types the simplest is clearly the boolean, so start there. I believe firmly that there should be a single true value, which we might reasonably name true, and a single false value, false, other values aren't booleans, so it's no more reasonable to ask whether an empty string is false, than to just forget to close the quote marks on a string. What we wrote isn't a correct program.
  - shawn_w 9mo ago
    Scheme has a single false value (#f) but everything else is considered true...
  - behnamoh 9mo ago
    Any Lisp w/o image support is no true Lisp in my book. That leaves us with only Common Lisp and Janet. The others (Scheme, Clojure, etc.) are just Lispy syntax but lack the true "soul" of Lisp-style development.
    - int_19h 9mo ago
      Racket?
stackghost 9mo ago
Common Lisp is actually a great language. The SBCL implementation has a good compiler that produce reasonably fast code, and it's under active development. The only real drawback to common lisp is the fact that the library ecosystem is practically non-existent.

latexr 9mo ago

> Why would you bother using Swift if you're not targeting Apple? For the reasons stated in the article.

MissTake 9mo ago

>I t's a bit like using c# or powershell on Linux… but I wouldn't consider it a first class citizen. C# is very very much a first class citizen on Linux. It may not be native, but you can run binaries on Linux without needing the runtime when you compile it to target the platform. I wrote a couple of monoservices on my Mac using c# which ran perfectly on my Microk8s cluster on Linux.

mrsmrtss 9mo ago
I have nearly a decade of experience building .NET C# solutions on Linux and lately also on Mac, with almost everything hosted on Linux via Docker. I’m not sure what’s still missing for it to be accepted into the "first class citizen" club by the Linux elite.
- metaltyphoon 9mo ago
  The goal post must be moved. I constantly hear “there is no GUI story”… well thats not a core part of the language!
  - mrsmrtss 9mo ago
    There actually is a great GUI story also for Linux today enabled by the excellent Avalonia (https://avaloniaui.net https://avaloniaui.net).