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I completely agree with you, but the consumer here isn't without fault. By purchasing a Kindle and DRM'd books for it, you're agreeing to Amazon's policies. I

I completely agree with you, but the consumer here isn't without fault. By purchasing a Kindle and DRM'd books for it, you're agreeing to Amazon's policies. It's true that kindle books don't work like regular books, but being ignorant of that fact isn't an excuse. This is why I categorically refuse to pay a single penny for any digital media that has DRM attached to it and might prevent me from playing it at any time in the future and that I can't back up to my own media.

cloverich 14y ago
> It's true that kindle books don't work like regular books, but being ignorant of that fact isn't an excuse. I very much doubt there's a plain english clause that goes a little something like: "If we think you have violated (our?) DRM policies, we will delete every book you've ever purchased, and close your current and future accounts. If you think this is done in error, you may not ask us why we closed the account. You may only sue us to get an answer" To call out a consumer for not being prepared for a no-warning, no explanation ban (and removal of all legally purchased content) seems extreme.
- DanBC 14y ago
  Here's what the License Agreement says: (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200501450 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId...) > Termination. Your rights under this Agreement will automatically terminate if you fail to comply with any term of this Agreement. In case of such termination, you must cease all use of the Software, and Amazon may immediately revoke your access to the Service or to Digital Content without refund of any fees. Amazons failure to insist upon or enforce your strict compliance with this Agreement will not constitute a waiver of any of its rights.
  - frobozz 14y ago
    Individuals have the right to see any personal data that an organisation holds about them. If automated processing of such data leads to a legal or significant effect (e.g. you've violated our contract, so we're deleting everything you've bought from us, and you can't use our services ever again.), they also have the right to know what the logic was behind that processing. Amazon may have the right to terminate accounts and ban users, but when challenged by the user, they do not have the right to respond with "because I said so, so there!"
    - anigbrowl 14y ago
      Individuals have the right to see any personal data that an organisation holds about them. Depends where the individual is. In the EU this is basically true. Norway, however, is not part of the EU. as for the US, consumers here do not have such rights. It seems you are talking about how you think things should be, rather than how they actually are.
      - frobozz 14y ago
        I wouldn't have posted a comment like that if the story was about someone in Somalia complaining about a US company. Norway is part of the EEA, and has laws equivalent to the European Data Protection Directive. Amazon.co.uk is a company operating in the UK, and is therefore subject to the UK Data Protection Act. IANAL, but at least one of those two facts means that Linn has the rights I outlined above.
dripton 14y ago
Good for you. I also categorically refused to buy anything with DRM on it, until I caved and bought a Kindle last year. I figured the DRM on the Kindle was at least easy to crack, so I could make backups of my books to keep Amazon from stealing them from me. But I must confess that I haven't been diligent about backing up my ebooks.
engtech 14y ago
"It's true that kindle books don't work like regular books, but being ignorant of that fact isn't an excuse." Have you tried explaining to a non-technical person about remote wipes? I had a 20 minute discussion on this subject with a 58 year old friend of mine who has a doctorate, presents at conferences, etc. I spent the first 15 minutes convincing him that the ebook publish had the right to do a remote wipe. He remained unconvinced that an ebook publisher would ever do a remote wipe because it would be bad for business.
- justincormack 14y ago
  This story has hit the mainstream press and I am sure it will be bad for business...

cloverich 14y ago

> It's true that kindle books don't work like regular books, but being ignorant of that fact isn't an excuse. I very much doubt there's a plain english clause that goes a little something like: "If we think you have violated (our?) DRM policies, we will delete every book you've ever purchased, and close your current and future accounts. If you think this is done in error, you may not ask us why we closed the account. You may only sue us to get an answer" To call out a consumer for not being prepared for a no-warning, no explanation ban (and removal of all legally purchased content) seems extreme.

DanBC 14y ago
Here's what the License Agreement says: (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200501450 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId...) > Termination. Your rights under this Agreement will automatically terminate if you fail to comply with any term of this Agreement. In case of such termination, you must cease all use of the Software, and Amazon may immediately revoke your access to the Service or to Digital Content without refund of any fees. Amazons failure to insist upon or enforce your strict compliance with this Agreement will not constitute a waiver of any of its rights.
- frobozz 14y ago
  Individuals have the right to see any personal data that an organisation holds about them. If automated processing of such data leads to a legal or significant effect (e.g. you've violated our contract, so we're deleting everything you've bought from us, and you can't use our services ever again.), they also have the right to know what the logic was behind that processing. Amazon may have the right to terminate accounts and ban users, but when challenged by the user, they do not have the right to respond with "because I said so, so there!"
  - anigbrowl 14y ago
    Individuals have the right to see any personal data that an organisation holds about them. Depends where the individual is. In the EU this is basically true. Norway, however, is not part of the EU. as for the US, consumers here do not have such rights. It seems you are talking about how you think things should be, rather than how they actually are.
    - frobozz 14y ago
      I wouldn't have posted a comment like that if the story was about someone in Somalia complaining about a US company. Norway is part of the EEA, and has laws equivalent to the European Data Protection Directive. Amazon.co.uk is a company operating in the UK, and is therefore subject to the UK Data Protection Act. IANAL, but at least one of those two facts means that Linn has the rights I outlined above.

dripton 14y ago

Good for you. I also categorically refused to buy anything with DRM on it, until I caved and bought a Kindle last year. I figured the DRM on the Kindle was at least easy to crack, so I could make backups of my books to keep Amazon from stealing them from me. But I must confess that I haven't been diligent about backing up my ebooks.

engtech 14y ago

"It's true that kindle books don't work like regular books, but being ignorant of that fact isn't an excuse." Have you tried explaining to a non-technical person about remote wipes? I had a 20 minute discussion on this subject with a 58 year old friend of mine who has a doctorate, presents at conferences, etc. I spent the first 15 minutes convincing him that the ebook publish had the right to do a remote wipe. He remained unconvinced that an ebook publisher would ever do a remote wipe because it would be bad for business.

justincormack 14y ago
This story has hit the mainstream press and I am sure it will be bad for business...