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Once you know about "Save The Cat!" it becomes boring to watch a movie that follows the formula. I noticed even back in the 80s that too many movies ended in t

Once you know about "Save The Cat!" it becomes boring to watch a movie that follows the formula. I noticed even back in the 80s that too many movies ended in the "chase through the darkened warehouse". The movie will be doing fine, until somehow the hero and villain wind up in a dark, abandoned warehouse, ship, factory, whatever. Then they have a long, drawn out fight. Then the bad guy gets killed. Movie over? Nope. The bad guy rises from the dead and has to be killed again. Sometimes even a third time. Then there are movies with the party of 10 people or so. The point is to kill them off one by one, each in a gruesomely different way, until the star is the only one left. Movies also telegraph who in the party is going to die next. It's the person who reflects on something innocuous, like "isn't it nice to hear the birds singing!". Dead meat, every time. The only interesting thing to do with these movies is make bets on the order of the deaths. "Game of Thrones" was interesting because it did not follow any formula I could discern, except for the last two seasons.

mmooss 9mo ago
I try not to think too much in those circumstances. It's often better not to know, not to notice, though it's not always possible. People like genre and formula; it's not necessarily a negative - pop songs follow structures and formulas over and over. Also, creative artists can innovate by varying those structures and playing with expectations that don't exist in less formulaic creations. There is plenty of non-formulaic film (and other arts) if you want it? I'm sure you must know that.
nephihaha 9mo ago
"Game of Thrones" was interesting because it did not follow any formula I could discern" Introduction of character. Dialogue. Gratuitous sex scene. Machiavellian discussion. Reference to earlier episode. Cliffhanger.
- b112 9mo ago
  Yes, it's dasterdly! Almost every movie has a plot. How formulaic. How droll! I find these sorts of discussions to be strange. Yes, stories follow specific methods to convey them. Yes, conflict is part of that. I will agree that too formulaic is a sign of the times. I find that many 60s and 70s movies were the most creative this way. The 30s often had movies that were just plays on film. The 50s were where the process of filmmaking gelled into reality. Not just how to make shots, but also the gear like steady cam, and an entire special effects industry, stuntmen, whole crops of professionals becoming uniquely skilled. The 60s and 70s were the first generation of those which grew up with film as kids. The new medium was more understood. Experimentation ensued. Then it became more formulaic. At least, it seems the way to me.
  - wincy 9mo ago
    I only watch movies that are a series of randomly seeded intervals of tones at various pitches, random colors, with static added in. This ensures I never watch anything formulaic or predictable. More seriously, it is interesting when a movie breaks out of a formula, especially in well established tropes, like Disney movies. Moana or Encanto come to mind as they convey stories where there either isn’t really a villain (spoilers, Te’Ka is not the villain), and especially in Encanto the conflict is more internal family issues than anything else. But sometimes it feels good to just watch those archetypal stories. I know people hate on Marvel but the Thanos arc with the infinity stones and the snap was such a fun ride, over the course of many years. These stories are extremely formulaic but still enjoyable because on some level we are wired to enjoy these stories.
- WalterBright 9mo ago
  You forgot: kill off the main character in the first episode!
  - nephihaha 9mo ago
    :) I'd also forgotten battle/fight scenes.
    - WalterBright 9mo ago
      And then they started resurrecting dead characters.
nicbou 9mo ago
The same is true about superhero fights. They throw each other through a few buildings until the plot has to move on. The fights just don't matter.
dredmorbius 9mo ago
For those unfamiliar, Save the Cat! The last book on screenwriting you'll ever need by Blake Snyder (2005): <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_the_Cat!:_The_Last_Book_on_Screenwriting_You%27ll_Ever_Need https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_the_Cat!:_The_Last_Book_o...>

mmooss 9mo ago

I try not to think too much in those circumstances. It's often better not to know, not to notice, though it's not always possible. People like genre and formula; it's not necessarily a negative - pop songs follow structures and formulas over and over. Also, creative artists can innovate by varying those structures and playing with expectations that don't exist in less formulaic creations. There is plenty of non-formulaic film (and other arts) if you want it? I'm sure you must know that.

nephihaha 9mo ago

"Game of Thrones" was interesting because it did not follow any formula I could discern" Introduction of character. Dialogue. Gratuitous sex scene. Machiavellian discussion. Reference to earlier episode. Cliffhanger.

b112 9mo ago
Yes, it's dasterdly! Almost every movie has a plot. How formulaic. How droll! I find these sorts of discussions to be strange. Yes, stories follow specific methods to convey them. Yes, conflict is part of that. I will agree that too formulaic is a sign of the times. I find that many 60s and 70s movies were the most creative this way. The 30s often had movies that were just plays on film. The 50s were where the process of filmmaking gelled into reality. Not just how to make shots, but also the gear like steady cam, and an entire special effects industry, stuntmen, whole crops of professionals becoming uniquely skilled. The 60s and 70s were the first generation of those which grew up with film as kids. The new medium was more understood. Experimentation ensued. Then it became more formulaic. At least, it seems the way to me.
- wincy 9mo ago
  I only watch movies that are a series of randomly seeded intervals of tones at various pitches, random colors, with static added in. This ensures I never watch anything formulaic or predictable. More seriously, it is interesting when a movie breaks out of a formula, especially in well established tropes, like Disney movies. Moana or Encanto come to mind as they convey stories where there either isn’t really a villain (spoilers, Te’Ka is not the villain), and especially in Encanto the conflict is more internal family issues than anything else. But sometimes it feels good to just watch those archetypal stories. I know people hate on Marvel but the Thanos arc with the infinity stones and the snap was such a fun ride, over the course of many years. These stories are extremely formulaic but still enjoyable because on some level we are wired to enjoy these stories.
WalterBright 9mo ago
You forgot: kill off the main character in the first episode!
- nephihaha 9mo ago
  :) I'd also forgotten battle/fight scenes.
  - WalterBright 9mo ago
    And then they started resurrecting dead characters.

nicbou 9mo ago

The same is true about superhero fights. They throw each other through a few buildings until the plot has to move on. The fights just don't matter.

dredmorbius 9mo ago

For those unfamiliar, Save the Cat! The last book on screenwriting you'll ever need by Blake Snyder (2005): <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_the_Cat!:_The_Last_Book_on_Screenwriting_You%27ll_Ever_Need https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_the_Cat!:_The_Last_Book_o...>