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No More Hidden Changes: How MySQL 9.6 Transforms Foreign Key Management

35 points by ksec 9mo ago

exabrial 9mo ago
I mean great, but there are 0 commits in 2026 Github for MySQL. I think pretty much everyone is planning a transition to MariaDB or Postgres. MySQL is a beloved OSS product and project. Losing influence over that would be a massive mistake by Oracle. Citation: https://github.com/mysql/mysql-server/commits/trunk/ https://github.com/mysql/mysql-server/commits/trunk/
- harwoodr 9mo ago
  >It's because MySQL apparently does development in-house in a git repository and only occasionally pushes it to GitHub https://optimizedbyotto.com/post/reasons-to-stop-using-mysql/ https://optimizedbyotto.com/post/reasons-to-stop-using-mysql...
  - exabrial 9mo ago
    I saw that page, but interestingly enough I don't see that quote on there
- earless1 9mo ago
  https://www.percona.com/blog/separating-fud-and-reality-has-mysql-really-been-abandoned/ https://www.percona.com/blog/separating-fud-and-reality-has-... This has been debunked, they've never used Github as their main development area
  - exabrial 9mo ago
    I appreciate this actually. It’s been hard sorting through the noise
- iberator 9mo ago
  So? Some software doesn't need to updates to be perfect. games are great example. Some software is simply mature and nearly perfect and working - so lack of commits is GOOD thing instead of tons of useless neverending useless features. Mario for NES doesn't need updates - yet it's perfect game by many.
  - exabrial 9mo ago
    Valid point, Percona pointed that out in the blog actually. The codebase is old, and a lot of ridiculous bugs have been worked out it.
direwolf20 9mo ago
yeah but it's Oracle. You want MariaDB now.
- HackerThemAll 9mo ago
  I prefer PostgreSQL. Don't see any advantage of MySQL/Maria.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    Different concurrency model
  - dwedge 9mo ago
    What do you see as advantages of postgres over mysql? I see these comments at work quite often and there isn't always much substance behind them
  - evanelias 9mo ago
    A few major areas where MySQL/MariaDB excels: Threaded connection model (no process spawning) Undo-based MVCC (no need for vacuum) InnoDB's use of a clustered index for PK (has pros/cons, but better for some workloads) Ability to use alternative storage engines such as MyRocks (LSM based instead of B-tree; best-in-class compression) Support for index hints (so query plans won't randomly change and bring your site down) More mature logical replication (fully supports DDL, has no concept of limited "replication slots", etc) That all said, there are also many areas where Postgres is better! Like all things in computer science, there are architectural trade-offs, and no single silver bullet is the best choice for all workloads.
    - waynesonfire 9mo ago
      Your list confirms that MySQL is irrelevant to me.
      - evanelias 9mo ago
        That's totally fine, there are many workloads where Postgres is the best choice! I'm not forcing you to use it, I was just responding to the comment upthread about lack of advantages. It's kind of bonkers that the anti-MySQL crowd is so rabid that any attempt to explain legitimate use-cases for MySQL is met with a barrage of downvotes, especially in a submission that is directly about MySQL specifically :/
sc68cal 9mo ago
I think it's a good idea, as a decades long user of InnoDB. I hope that the work can be shared with other forks of MySQL
evanelias 9mo ago
Hidden changes indeed... I'm glad Oracle did a blog post about this, because otherwise it's largely missing from the MySQL documentation. This is really disappointing considering that 9.6 was released over two weeks ago, yet as of this moment: * The new innodb_native_foreign_keys server variable has only two vague sentences describing its effect: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.6/en/innodb-parameters.html#sysvar_innodb_native_foreign_keys https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.6/en/innodb-parameters.ht... * The MySQL 9.6 release notes make no mention of foreign key changes whatsoever, nor of the innodb_native_foreign_keys variable: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/9.6/en/news-9-6-0.html https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/9.6/en/news-9-6-0.h... * The "What is New in MySQL 9.6" manual page is currently just a copy-and-paste of that page from MySQL 9.5, with all the "9.5"'s replaced with "9.6": https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.6/en/mysql-nutshell.html https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.6/en/mysql-nutshell.html vs https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.5/en/mysql-nutshell.html https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.5/en/mysql-nutshell.html As an independent software vendor providing solutions focused on MySQL, honestly I find this situation to be deeply concerning. I have heard that an Oracle exec made a lot of promises about renewed MySQL Community Edition attention at a pre-FOSDEM event a few days ago; can we take any of that seriously if even basic documentation updates are not occurring?
- lathiat 9mo ago
  Back in the day (MySQL 5.0-5.5 era, when I was working at MySQL/Sun/Oracle in the MySQL support team) the MySQL documentation team was truly amazing and sets the standard for me even today compared to many other docs teams I see. They had a very long and comprehensive manual. The manual on each page inter-linked easily to switch between the relevant page for different major versions with a dropdown version selector (3.x, 4.x, 5.0, 5.1, 5.5..etc).. and if a page had moved or didn't exist it always accurately redirect to the correct page as you did that switch. And almost every single engineering change that ever mattered to me made it into the changelog and also had relevant docs. I could largely rely on it and didn't need "git log" like I mostly need today to figure out what changed in a version. Partly this was process, every closed bug/change went to the docs team to process.. but the team was also fantastic and converting that into relevant docs and writing great docs. A shame if that has been lost, they did have a stack of layoffs recently in MySQL.. apparently the developer team is also heavily down from where it was. I am sure this writing is a little biased but interesting reading never the less: https://mariadb.org/reading-the-room-what-europes-mysql-community-is-really-saying/ https://mariadb.org/reading-the-room-what-europes-mysql-comm...
ammojamo 9mo ago
This is great news for me. Recently I have been trying to set up a simple solution to replicate a MySQL database into DuckDB, without the whole CDC shebang (kafka, debezium etc.). The biggest problem I faced was the fact that cascaded operations are not captured in the logs and so they would not make it into the replica. Every workaround I could come up with was slow and/or fragile. It sounds like these up-coming changes will simply make that problem disappear - hurrah!
- zbentley 9mo ago
  This was on the front page yesterday, which sounds related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46875228 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46875228

35 points by ksec 9mo ago

I mean great, but there are 0 commits in 2026 Github for MySQL. I think pretty much everyone is planning a transition to MariaDB or Postgres. MySQL is a beloved OSS product and project. Losing influence over that would be a massive mistake by Oracle. Citation: https://github.com/mysql/mysql-server/commits/trunk/ https://github.com/mysql/mysql-server/commits/trunk/

harwoodr 9mo ago
>It's because MySQL apparently does development in-house in a git repository and only occasionally pushes it to GitHub https://optimizedbyotto.com/post/reasons-to-stop-using-mysql/ https://optimizedbyotto.com/post/reasons-to-stop-using-mysql...
- exabrial 9mo ago
  I saw that page, but interestingly enough I don't see that quote on there
earless1 9mo ago
https://www.percona.com/blog/separating-fud-and-reality-has-mysql-really-been-abandoned/ https://www.percona.com/blog/separating-fud-and-reality-has-... This has been debunked, they've never used Github as their main development area
- exabrial 9mo ago
  I appreciate this actually. It’s been hard sorting through the noise
iberator 9mo ago
So? Some software doesn't need to updates to be perfect. games are great example. Some software is simply mature and nearly perfect and working - so lack of commits is GOOD thing instead of tons of useless neverending useless features. Mario for NES doesn't need updates - yet it's perfect game by many.
- exabrial 9mo ago
  Valid point, Percona pointed that out in the blog actually. The codebase is old, and a lot of ridiculous bugs have been worked out it.

direwolf20 9mo ago

yeah but it's Oracle. You want MariaDB now.

HackerThemAll 9mo ago
I prefer PostgreSQL. Don't see any advantage of MySQL/Maria.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Different concurrency model
- dwedge 9mo ago
  What do you see as advantages of postgres over mysql? I see these comments at work quite often and there isn't always much substance behind them
- evanelias 9mo ago
  A few major areas where MySQL/MariaDB excels: Threaded connection model (no process spawning) Undo-based MVCC (no need for vacuum) InnoDB's use of a clustered index for PK (has pros/cons, but better for some workloads) Ability to use alternative storage engines such as MyRocks (LSM based instead of B-tree; best-in-class compression) Support for index hints (so query plans won't randomly change and bring your site down) More mature logical replication (fully supports DDL, has no concept of limited "replication slots", etc) That all said, there are also many areas where Postgres is better! Like all things in computer science, there are architectural trade-offs, and no single silver bullet is the best choice for all workloads.
  - waynesonfire 9mo ago
    Your list confirms that MySQL is irrelevant to me.
    - evanelias 9mo ago
      That's totally fine, there are many workloads where Postgres is the best choice! I'm not forcing you to use it, I was just responding to the comment upthread about lack of advantages. It's kind of bonkers that the anti-MySQL crowd is so rabid that any attempt to explain legitimate use-cases for MySQL is met with a barrage of downvotes, especially in a submission that is directly about MySQL specifically :/

sc68cal 9mo ago

I think it's a good idea, as a decades long user of InnoDB. I hope that the work can be shared with other forks of MySQL

evanelias 9mo ago

Hidden changes indeed... I'm glad Oracle did a blog post about this, because otherwise it's largely missing from the MySQL documentation. This is really disappointing considering that 9.6 was released over two weeks ago, yet as of this moment: * The new innodb_native_foreign_keys server variable has only two vague sentences describing its effect: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.6/en/innodb-parameters.html#sysvar_innodb_native_foreign_keys https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.6/en/innodb-parameters.ht... * The MySQL 9.6 release notes make no mention of foreign key changes whatsoever, nor of the innodb_native_foreign_keys variable: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/9.6/en/news-9-6-0.html https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/9.6/en/news-9-6-0.h... * The "What is New in MySQL 9.6" manual page is currently just a copy-and-paste of that page from MySQL 9.5, with all the "9.5"'s replaced with "9.6": https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.6/en/mysql-nutshell.html https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.6/en/mysql-nutshell.html vs https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.5/en/mysql-nutshell.html https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/9.5/en/mysql-nutshell.html As an independent software vendor providing solutions focused on MySQL, honestly I find this situation to be deeply concerning. I have heard that an Oracle exec made a lot of promises about renewed MySQL Community Edition attention at a pre-FOSDEM event a few days ago; can we take any of that seriously if even basic documentation updates are not occurring?

lathiat 9mo ago
Back in the day (MySQL 5.0-5.5 era, when I was working at MySQL/Sun/Oracle in the MySQL support team) the MySQL documentation team was truly amazing and sets the standard for me even today compared to many other docs teams I see. They had a very long and comprehensive manual. The manual on each page inter-linked easily to switch between the relevant page for different major versions with a dropdown version selector (3.x, 4.x, 5.0, 5.1, 5.5..etc).. and if a page had moved or didn't exist it always accurately redirect to the correct page as you did that switch. And almost every single engineering change that ever mattered to me made it into the changelog and also had relevant docs. I could largely rely on it and didn't need "git log" like I mostly need today to figure out what changed in a version. Partly this was process, every closed bug/change went to the docs team to process.. but the team was also fantastic and converting that into relevant docs and writing great docs. A shame if that has been lost, they did have a stack of layoffs recently in MySQL.. apparently the developer team is also heavily down from where it was. I am sure this writing is a little biased but interesting reading never the less: https://mariadb.org/reading-the-room-what-europes-mysql-community-is-really-saying/ https://mariadb.org/reading-the-room-what-europes-mysql-comm...

ammojamo 9mo ago

This is great news for me. Recently I have been trying to set up a simple solution to replicate a MySQL database into DuckDB, without the whole CDC shebang (kafka, debezium etc.). The biggest problem I faced was the fact that cascaded operations are not captured in the logs and so they would not make it into the replica. Every workaround I could come up with was slow and/or fragile. It sounds like these up-coming changes will simply make that problem disappear - hurrah!

zbentley 9mo ago
This was on the front page yesterday, which sounds related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46875228 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46875228