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Very cool. I didn't know that AVIFs had a full alpha layer, which seems to imply that we now have a format that can do animation AND transparency at reasonable

by 0xy 9mo ago

Very cool. I didn't know that AVIFs had a full alpha layer, which seems to imply that we now have a format that can do animation AND transparency at reasonable file sizes in all modern browsers. Perhaps I have a niche use case but I need to display animated images (or video) that has adaptive transparency (meaning the transparent area changes, for example think of a bonfire with smoke as an isolated object). Previously I was using some Frankenstein setup with old encoders so I could feature detect and serve either WebMs (which have animation+transparency) or Apple ProRes for Safari (because Safari does support WebM, but not the full spec). Frustrating, and a workflow nightmare!

singpolyma3 9mo ago
WebP also has animation and transparency does it not?
- 0xy 9mo ago
  That's a good alternative however I need full programmatic control (start/stop/events). You can't do that with images.
  - socalgal2 9mo ago
    WebM supports transparency. Checking, neither AVIF with transparency nor WebM with transparency are suppored in Safari ... sigh
    - 0xy 9mo ago
      Yeah when I found WebM I thought it was my holy grail especially seeing Safari "supported" it. Turns out it was a half measure.
Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago
(A little off topic?) but your comment made me appreciate AVIF. Now if I may ask as I am not familiar with the encoder space but how good would AVIF be for say video streaming. Like If I may ask, what's the best encoder for video live streaming in general (and is AVIF within the picture?) and an additional question being which is a good format for text based videos where there might be a huge amount of texts which might change (think a person showing terminal etc.), yes one can have a direct change of text which could be the most efficient and I am just asking it out of curiosity but what would be the second best option?
- adzm 9mo ago
  AVIF frames are independent; you'd want an actual video codec for streaming. AV1 is probably the most advanced video codec that has wide support.
- linolevan 9mo ago
  You have the right intuition – AVIF is an image format based on the encoder for AV1 (which is a really, really good video codec). If you're interested in video, you might be interested to know that AV2 is in development.
  - Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago
    > If you're interested in video, you might be interested to know that AV2 is in development. Oh interesting to know that! What would be the differences between Av1 and AV2? Found a website (https://www.geekextreme.com/av1-vs-av2-video-codec/ https://www.geekextreme.com/av1-vs-av2-video-codec/) which gave me some interesting results AV2 delivers 30% better compression efficiency than AV1, which already compresses 30% better than HEVC (H.265). AV2 encoding demands 2-3 times more computational power than AV1, requiring advanced hardware like RTX 5090 for practical use. AV2 will officially release by end of 2025, with widespread hardware support expected around 2027 or later. AV2 introduces advanced features like split-screen delivery, enhanced AR/VR support, and dynamic bitrate switching for adaptive streaming. 88% of AOMedia members plan to implement AV2 within two years, despite infrastructure and hardware compatibility challenges. If there's any other difference then let me know too but Honestly a bit curious but it mentions that it requires RTX 5090 Wouldn't this be a little bad for the market too? Sure it compresses 30% more but not everybody has rtx 5090 Are we gonna see multi codec in things like say netflix where to devices which don't support av2 will be sent av1 but they would prefer to send av2 if the hardware category is matched?
    - SquareWheel 9mo ago
      Just in case you missed it, your quote was referring to encoding requirements. Decoding (eg. Netflix users) will have a different set of requirements. The situation will also improve over time as dedicated hardware encoders and decoders become available. For the moment, I don't really mind if it requires more GPU power to encode media, since it only needs to happen once. I expect it will still be possible on a weaker card, but it would just take longer.

by 0xy 9mo ago

singpolyma3 9mo ago

WebP also has animation and transparency does it not?

0xy 9mo ago
That's a good alternative however I need full programmatic control (start/stop/events). You can't do that with images.
- socalgal2 9mo ago
  WebM supports transparency. Checking, neither AVIF with transparency nor WebM with transparency are suppored in Safari ... sigh
  - 0xy 9mo ago
    Yeah when I found WebM I thought it was my holy grail especially seeing Safari "supported" it. Turns out it was a half measure.

Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago

(A little off topic?) but your comment made me appreciate AVIF. Now if I may ask as I am not familiar with the encoder space but how good would AVIF be for say video streaming. Like If I may ask, what's the best encoder for video live streaming in general (and is AVIF within the picture?) and an additional question being which is a good format for text based videos where there might be a huge amount of texts which might change (think a person showing terminal etc.), yes one can have a direct change of text which could be the most efficient and I am just asking it out of curiosity but what would be the second best option?

adzm 9mo ago
AVIF frames are independent; you'd want an actual video codec for streaming. AV1 is probably the most advanced video codec that has wide support.
linolevan 9mo ago
You have the right intuition – AVIF is an image format based on the encoder for AV1 (which is a really, really good video codec). If you're interested in video, you might be interested to know that AV2 is in development.
- Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago
  > If you're interested in video, you might be interested to know that AV2 is in development. Oh interesting to know that! What would be the differences between Av1 and AV2? Found a website (https://www.geekextreme.com/av1-vs-av2-video-codec/ https://www.geekextreme.com/av1-vs-av2-video-codec/) which gave me some interesting results AV2 delivers 30% better compression efficiency than AV1, which already compresses 30% better than HEVC (H.265). AV2 encoding demands 2-3 times more computational power than AV1, requiring advanced hardware like RTX 5090 for practical use. AV2 will officially release by end of 2025, with widespread hardware support expected around 2027 or later. AV2 introduces advanced features like split-screen delivery, enhanced AR/VR support, and dynamic bitrate switching for adaptive streaming. 88% of AOMedia members plan to implement AV2 within two years, despite infrastructure and hardware compatibility challenges. If there's any other difference then let me know too but Honestly a bit curious but it mentions that it requires RTX 5090 Wouldn't this be a little bad for the market too? Sure it compresses 30% more but not everybody has rtx 5090 Are we gonna see multi codec in things like say netflix where to devices which don't support av2 will be sent av1 but they would prefer to send av2 if the hardware category is matched?
  - SquareWheel 9mo ago
    Just in case you missed it, your quote was referring to encoding requirements. Decoding (eg. Netflix users) will have a different set of requirements. The situation will also improve over time as dedicated hardware encoders and decoders become available. For the moment, I don't really mind if it requires more GPU power to encode media, since it only needs to happen once. I expect it will still be possible on a weaker card, but it would just take longer.