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The biggest problem every communist country had was indeed coordination. The USSR was famous for this, in fact the Nazi invasion was a success at first partly b

by JVIDEL 14y ago

The biggest problem every communist country had was indeed coordination. The USSR was famous for this, in fact the Nazi invasion was a success at first partly because of Soviet disarray: you had spies warning about the impending attack for months while factories churned tanks but not supply trucks, and the army trained soldiers but didn't make enough rifles for all of them. And this happened on a day-to-day basis: you had factories making 10,000 units when only 1,000 were needed, or worse when the demand was of 100,000. Food supply was always a problem and still is in countries like Cuba and NK. I have friends a bit older than me that lived under such conditions and still remember having to wake up at 4AM to grab a nice spot at the store line. "Show up late and there was no food left" they said. This Chilean system was without a doubt the right solution for the problem, too bad that it was destroyed before it could do what it was meant to do.

demian 14y ago
But Chile was not a communist country. The dream of a "mechanical centralized control" was shared by a lot of people in the XX century. It's strongly featured in positivistic SciFi literature of the time, for example I, Robot from Asimov.
- Kadin 14y ago
  While Allende's formal affiliation was with the Socialist party, he was also endorsed by the Communist party at the time of his election. (WP says it was as an alternate, their primary choice being Pablo Neruda, but he then turned around and supported Allende.) And Allende's government was apparently perceived by some as being to the left of the Socialist party after the election. Exactly where the government was on the spectrum is open to debate, but I don't think you can say that they "weren't Communist" as though that's a boolean flag that's either true or false. But I think arguing over where exactly they were politically misses the point; you can have varying political philosophies alongside different economic ones. I'd argue that the two are basically orthogonal. Regardless of where the Allende government falls on the political-philosophy spectrum, they certainly had a fascination with national industries, economies of scale, and central planning.
  - demian 14y ago
    > Exactly where the government was on the spectrum is open to debate, but I don't think you can say that they "weren't Communist" as though that's a boolean flag that's either true or false. Of course I can't. My comment was a reply. My point was that Chile was not a "communist country" as in "USSR's brand of Communism".
mlvljr 14y ago
"Show up late and there was no fresh milk left, and only yesterday's bread" -- that'll be correct :) I remember there was a wide-spread (and criticized, even in children's books) habit of throwing away whole loafs of bread, if it lost its softness a couple of days after it had been bought: "an old man tells children he sees playing football with a loaf not do that and tells the history of his times" -- a scenario from one of the books I read when I was a child, and quite a life-like one :) You should probably ask your friends whether they were hungry -- ever, and esp. on that unlucky days they were late to the grocery :) Seems, the Soviet system was just a bit too pedantic about not wasting food.
jorgeleo 14y ago
I don't understand how communism is related to the article. Allende was socialist, not communist. They are different political systems.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 14y ago
  One of the S's in USSR the 'classic' communist country stood for socialist. Granted the Communist party in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is probably what really confused most people.
  - demian 14y ago
    What they "said" they were was not what they became (by current definitions). There are a lot of European countries ruled by socialist parties, and they are not communist by any stretch of the imagination.
  - jorgeleo 14y ago
    Then I guess 7 = 11 because the store 711 puts the together... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism They can put whatever they want in their name, and even mix and match the terms in their propaganda... reality remains that they are different political doctrines.
wmf 14y ago
Some people have looked into this and concluded that even modern computers and algorithms are not sufficient for central planning at a national scale. http://crookedtimber.org/2012/05/30/in-soviet-union-optimization-problem-solves-you/ http://crookedtimber.org/2012/05/30/in-soviet-union-optimiza... (Edit: I see this has already been linked below.)
ataggart 14y ago
>This Chilean system was without a doubt the right solution for the problem This presumes one can input all the relevant data, the preferences of millions of individuals as expressed by billions of choices every day. It also presumes the people sitting in those funny chairs won't be inclined to "adjust" things.

by JVIDEL 14y ago

demian 14y ago

But Chile was not a communist country. The dream of a "mechanical centralized control" was shared by a lot of people in the XX century. It's strongly featured in positivistic SciFi literature of the time, for example I, Robot from Asimov.

Kadin 14y ago
While Allende's formal affiliation was with the Socialist party, he was also endorsed by the Communist party at the time of his election. (WP says it was as an alternate, their primary choice being Pablo Neruda, but he then turned around and supported Allende.) And Allende's government was apparently perceived by some as being to the left of the Socialist party after the election. Exactly where the government was on the spectrum is open to debate, but I don't think you can say that they "weren't Communist" as though that's a boolean flag that's either true or false. But I think arguing over where exactly they were politically misses the point; you can have varying political philosophies alongside different economic ones. I'd argue that the two are basically orthogonal. Regardless of where the Allende government falls on the political-philosophy spectrum, they certainly had a fascination with national industries, economies of scale, and central planning.
- demian 14y ago
  > Exactly where the government was on the spectrum is open to debate, but I don't think you can say that they "weren't Communist" as though that's a boolean flag that's either true or false. Of course I can't. My comment was a reply. My point was that Chile was not a "communist country" as in "USSR's brand of Communism".

mlvljr 14y ago

"Show up late and there was no fresh milk left, and only yesterday's bread" -- that'll be correct :) I remember there was a wide-spread (and criticized, even in children's books) habit of throwing away whole loafs of bread, if it lost its softness a couple of days after it had been bought: "an old man tells children he sees playing football with a loaf not do that and tells the history of his times" -- a scenario from one of the books I read when I was a child, and quite a life-like one :) You should probably ask your friends whether they were hungry -- ever, and esp. on that unlucky days they were late to the grocery :) Seems, the Soviet system was just a bit too pedantic about not wasting food.

jorgeleo 14y ago

I don't understand how communism is related to the article. Allende was socialist, not communist. They are different political systems.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Retric 14y ago
One of the S's in USSR the 'classic' communist country stood for socialist. Granted the Communist party in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is probably what really confused most people.
- demian 14y ago
  What they "said" they were was not what they became (by current definitions). There are a lot of European countries ruled by socialist parties, and they are not communist by any stretch of the imagination.
- jorgeleo 14y ago
  Then I guess 7 = 11 because the store 711 puts the together... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism They can put whatever they want in their name, and even mix and match the terms in their propaganda... reality remains that they are different political doctrines.

wmf 14y ago

Some people have looked into this and concluded that even modern computers and algorithms are not sufficient for central planning at a national scale. http://crookedtimber.org/2012/05/30/in-soviet-union-optimization-problem-solves-you/ http://crookedtimber.org/2012/05/30/in-soviet-union-optimiza... (Edit: I see this has already been linked below.)

ataggart 14y ago

>This Chilean system was without a doubt the right solution for the problem This presumes one can input all the relevant data, the preferences of millions of individuals as expressed by billions of choices every day. It also presumes the people sitting in those funny chairs won't be inclined to "adjust" things.