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>Yeah, but we're not just talking about 16 year olds here, we're talking about (way) younger than that. There's been little indication that Epstein was interes

>Yeah, but we're not just talking about 16 year olds here, we're talking about (way) younger than that. There's been little indication that Epstein was interested in prepubescent girls. There's "as young as 14" in the indictment, still old enough to feasibly be visually indistinguishable from 18 year olds. >And besides, okay, an 18 year old, for hookups that's fine up to age 25 in my book. 30 is also fine in most of Europe's moral view, in France they'd probably accept 35. But ffs. Gates was around 58 back at the time. That's far too old to hang out with 18 year olds, much less having sex with them. There's little doubt that this stuff was weird, and that Epstein was a predator. It's less than obvious that those hanging out with him were any weirder than your average john engaged in buying sex from young attractive women.

cherry_tree 9mo ago
This is a sickening series of messages you chose to write out and submit offering apologia and defense for a group of sex trafficking pedophiles.
- JasonADrury 9mo ago
  Sure, the topic is sickening and any analytical conversation about it will inherently be sickening.
  - jmye 9mo ago
    “But 14 year olds basically look 18 so it’s ok” is not analytical, it’s apologia. It’s weird how there’s always someone on the internet who really wants to talk about which children it’s actually ok to have sex with.
    - JasonADrury 9mo ago
      Why would it be ok? That's a very weird thing to suggest.
      - jmye 9mo ago
        You tell me, bud.
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        You're the one saying it.
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
- rkomorn 9mo ago
  This thread is reminding me of Gianmarco Soresi's bit about R Kelly not being a pedophile (technically speaking).
  - JasonADrury 9mo ago
    I think the distinction spills into comedy when the discussion focuses on whether or not Epstein or R Kelly or whoever was a pedophile. It doesn't really matter because obviously they were terrible people regardless of that. It's a far more sensible point to consider when we're discussing the people around these individuals. If the girls surrounding Epstein had been prepubescent, that'd be a much worse look for the people around him.
mschuster91 9mo ago
> There's been little indication that Epstein was interested in prepubescent girls. There's "as young as 14" in the indictment, still old enough to feasibly be visually indistinguishable from 18 year olds. The thing is, the law doesn't care. People all over the world got busted for such things (including, and that's what I find ridiculous, combinations like 17/19). My recommendation - even if legal, as soon as you have doubts the other person is of age, just don't. Plenty of fish in the sea.
- JasonADrury 9mo ago
  That's precisely my point. In polite society the idea of mature adults having sex with minors is generally considered so outrageous that it's easy to imagine how those around Epstein wouldn't have had to try very hard to convince themselves that the young looking girls around Jeff are totally adults. It simply wasn't obvious to onlookers that Epstein was doing what he was doing, you wouldn't jump to assume that the young women around him were underage. Most of them apparently weren't. Had Epstein surrounded himself with prepubescent children instead, it'd be far easier to assume that the people hanging out with him were interested in specifically minors rather than conventionally beautiful young women.
  - archagon 9mo ago
    But he was already convicted of trafficking underage girls in 2008. How was it not obvious to onlookers?
    - JasonADrury 9mo ago
      I'd assume it was well known before 2008 that Epstein is a sex addict, he was always surrounded by a multitude of young women. Those women did not look like minors. I don't think it's particularly surprising that his friends might have concluded that he isn't actually into underage girls, but simply accidentally ended up sleeping with a minor or two while having sex with hundreds of women. I know a couple of people who spend excessive amounts of time and effort in order to hook up with lots of women. I don't particularly like either of them, but if one of them ended up facing statutory rape charges, my first assumption wouldn't be that they were deliberately trying to have sex with minors. The charges faced by Epstein in 2008 must have looked so outrageous that it's not hard to imagine why those around him might have given him the benefit of the doubt, especially after the government basically let him off and communicated to everyone that his crimes weren't actually that bad. There are some people aggressively misunderstanding me, I'm certainly not defending Epstein. I'm just offering a slightly more reasonable alternative theory than "everyone around him was a pedophile", which just seems fundamentally unlikely.

cherry_tree 9mo ago

This is a sickening series of messages you chose to write out and submit offering apologia and defense for a group of sex trafficking pedophiles.

JasonADrury 9mo ago
Sure, the topic is sickening and any analytical conversation about it will inherently be sickening.
- jmye 9mo ago
  “But 14 year olds basically look 18 so it’s ok” is not analytical, it’s apologia. It’s weird how there’s always someone on the internet who really wants to talk about which children it’s actually ok to have sex with.
  - JasonADrury 9mo ago
    Why would it be ok? That's a very weird thing to suggest.
    - jmye 9mo ago
      You tell me, bud.
      - JasonADrury 9mo ago
        You're the one saying it.
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
rkomorn 9mo ago
This thread is reminding me of Gianmarco Soresi's bit about R Kelly not being a pedophile (technically speaking).
- JasonADrury 9mo ago
  I think the distinction spills into comedy when the discussion focuses on whether or not Epstein or R Kelly or whoever was a pedophile. It doesn't really matter because obviously they were terrible people regardless of that. It's a far more sensible point to consider when we're discussing the people around these individuals. If the girls surrounding Epstein had been prepubescent, that'd be a much worse look for the people around him.

mschuster91 9mo ago

> There's been little indication that Epstein was interested in prepubescent girls. There's "as young as 14" in the indictment, still old enough to feasibly be visually indistinguishable from 18 year olds. The thing is, the law doesn't care. People all over the world got busted for such things (including, and that's what I find ridiculous, combinations like 17/19). My recommendation - even if legal, as soon as you have doubts the other person is of age, just don't. Plenty of fish in the sea.

JasonADrury 9mo ago
That's precisely my point. In polite society the idea of mature adults having sex with minors is generally considered so outrageous that it's easy to imagine how those around Epstein wouldn't have had to try very hard to convince themselves that the young looking girls around Jeff are totally adults. It simply wasn't obvious to onlookers that Epstein was doing what he was doing, you wouldn't jump to assume that the young women around him were underage. Most of them apparently weren't. Had Epstein surrounded himself with prepubescent children instead, it'd be far easier to assume that the people hanging out with him were interested in specifically minors rather than conventionally beautiful young women.
- archagon 9mo ago
  But he was already convicted of trafficking underage girls in 2008. How was it not obvious to onlookers?
  - JasonADrury 9mo ago
    I'd assume it was well known before 2008 that Epstein is a sex addict, he was always surrounded by a multitude of young women. Those women did not look like minors. I don't think it's particularly surprising that his friends might have concluded that he isn't actually into underage girls, but simply accidentally ended up sleeping with a minor or two while having sex with hundreds of women. I know a couple of people who spend excessive amounts of time and effort in order to hook up with lots of women. I don't particularly like either of them, but if one of them ended up facing statutory rape charges, my first assumption wouldn't be that they were deliberately trying to have sex with minors. The charges faced by Epstein in 2008 must have looked so outrageous that it's not hard to imagine why those around him might have given him the benefit of the doubt, especially after the government basically let him off and communicated to everyone that his crimes weren't actually that bad. There are some people aggressively misunderstanding me, I'm certainly not defending Epstein. I'm just offering a slightly more reasonable alternative theory than "everyone around him was a pedophile", which just seems fundamentally unlikely.