3 ms·

I believe at the moment it's still in the "spitting on each other" phase. Had Trump actually invaded Greenland* (and likewise if he does so in the future), that

by ben_w 9mo ago

I believe at the moment it's still in the "spitting on each other" phase. Had Trump actually invaded Greenland* (and likewise if he does so in the future), that's where the Rubicon gets crossed and there's no going back. I kinda do want it to have passed that point, but not as much as I'm glad he TACOed. * There's other metaphorical Rubicons available, this is just the one most in my mind given I live in the EU

Throaway3126 9mo ago
Trump and his team repeatedly saying they have no problems using force against Greenland and Canada were the red lines and they have already been crossed.
- ben_w 9mo ago
  I want those actions to have been the red line, and wish my representatives to treat it so if they are not yet. It is important to keep separate what I want to be and what is.
  - Throaway3126 9mo ago
    They are the red lines. There is no going back. The USA is too dangerous to rely on, that's quite clear. People don't quite realize how big a deal "invading" Greenland would have been. That's literally an act of war! What's next, occupying France? Saying that it's at all a possibility is far beyond any red line that the EU thought it would have to deal with. Not only would the rest of the world ditch the USA, but the Democrats themselves would take the opportunity to publically announce that they do not recognize Donald Trump's government.
    - ExoticPearTree 9mo ago
      I'll bite. Nothing would have come of it. Ehe EU would have been upset for 3-6 months, then it would have got onboard with the idea that Greenland is now a US territory and that's that. France has a too good of a cuisine to be invaded. I think Germany would be next, they are running their mouth more than they should and they suck at food. Unless the mid-terms change the political majority in the US, the Democrats can wine all they want and recognize or not recognize whoever they want as president. It will not change the actual situation.
      - Throaway3126 9mo ago
        Sorry but you're just wrong. This isn't a situation to be upset about. Its war. There's no universe where the USA invasion of Greenland doesn't end in disaster for Trump. There's already been articles in Politico where USA lawmakers admit that there would have been a War Measures Act passed if Trump invaded Greenland. Unlike Venezuela. It would definitely change the political situation if the state governments of California, New York et al stopped recognizing the federal government.
      - pixelpoet 9mo ago
        This is some top notch r/ShitAmericansSay material, especially Germany "running their mouth" and having bad food. Add in democrats "wining" and I'm pretty sure this post belongs on a Confederate cooking blog rather than HN.
        danielmarkbruce 9mo ago
        Except that he might be right... if you think there is no chance he's right, you aren't paying attention. These are strange times.
        DoesntMatter22 9mo ago
        Europe can’t defend itself without the US. That’s not the Us saying it that is coming from Europe itself. All this stuff is mostly grandstanding
        SideburnsOfDoom 9mo ago
        > Europe can’t defend itself without the US. It depends on what exactly Europe needs to defend itself against. And Europe is quite rightly starting to regard this US-dependence as a problem to be solved without further delay, rather than an eternal and immutable fact of the world.
        ExoticPearTree 9mo ago
        > This is some top notch r/ShitAmericansSay material, especially Germany "running their mouth" and having bad food. I'm not American and please, please, please tell me about a german dish that is actually on par with what the French make.
    - ben_w 9mo ago
      > People don't quite realize how big a deal "invading" Greenland would have been. That's literally an act of war! What's next, occupying France? Saying that it's at all a possibility is far beyond any red line that the EU thought it would have to deal with. Yes, absolutely, I agree. Thing is, in the end he backed off, so the result was all talk. He TACOed. For everyone's sake (including Americans'), I absolutely 100% want the EU to disentangle as much as possible and as fast as possible from the US so that we don't even feel the need to be polite to Trump in the future: he obviously sees the world as only predators to be scared of and prey to consume, so it's better for us (everyone, not just the EU) to become big and scary really fast so he doesn't even try anything. If he were to invade (anywhere, not just Greenland), that place and their allies basically have two options: fight or die. > Not only would the rest of the world ditch the USA, but the Democrats themselves would take the opportunity to publically announce that they do not recognize Donald Trump's government. I wish, but humans aren't like that. The Democrat leadership keep pulling defeat from the jaws of victory, and people are the same everywhere so an external threat is more likely to pull everyone together than to split them apart (same for everyone else is why the EU and Canada are warming, or at least thawing, their relationships with the rest of the world). What might have happened before an invasion was enough Republicans finally kicking him out (with Democrat support), or a US military coup (I'd say 50% if it got that far, but with high uncertainty). A military coup would also be a crossed Rubicon. But the military don't like traitors, and betraying an ally by invading it is an act of treachery.
      - throaway54 9mo ago
        No, the Democrats would do it precisely because of cynical human interest (they are like that). Donald Trump Republicans invading a Western nation plays right into their hands. They may as well just hand Gavin Newsom the next election. The overwhelming majority of US citizens do not approve of USA invading Greenland.
      - palata 9mo ago
        > Thing is, in the end he backed off, so the result was all talk. He TACOed. But for a few days (and probably still now), many people considered it was a real possibility. I don't think it matters whether the US meant it or not. What matters is whether the Europeans believed it or not. Trust is about belief.

by ben_w 9mo ago

Throaway3126 9mo ago

Trump and his team repeatedly saying they have no problems using force against Greenland and Canada were the red lines and they have already been crossed.

ben_w 9mo ago
I want those actions to have been the red line, and wish my representatives to treat it so if they are not yet. It is important to keep separate what I want to be and what is.
- Throaway3126 9mo ago
  They are the red lines. There is no going back. The USA is too dangerous to rely on, that's quite clear. People don't quite realize how big a deal "invading" Greenland would have been. That's literally an act of war! What's next, occupying France? Saying that it's at all a possibility is far beyond any red line that the EU thought it would have to deal with. Not only would the rest of the world ditch the USA, but the Democrats themselves would take the opportunity to publically announce that they do not recognize Donald Trump's government.
  - ExoticPearTree 9mo ago
    I'll bite. Nothing would have come of it. Ehe EU would have been upset for 3-6 months, then it would have got onboard with the idea that Greenland is now a US territory and that's that. France has a too good of a cuisine to be invaded. I think Germany would be next, they are running their mouth more than they should and they suck at food. Unless the mid-terms change the political majority in the US, the Democrats can wine all they want and recognize or not recognize whoever they want as president. It will not change the actual situation.
    - Throaway3126 9mo ago
      Sorry but you're just wrong. This isn't a situation to be upset about. Its war. There's no universe where the USA invasion of Greenland doesn't end in disaster for Trump. There's already been articles in Politico where USA lawmakers admit that there would have been a War Measures Act passed if Trump invaded Greenland. Unlike Venezuela. It would definitely change the political situation if the state governments of California, New York et al stopped recognizing the federal government.
    - pixelpoet 9mo ago
      This is some top notch r/ShitAmericansSay material, especially Germany "running their mouth" and having bad food. Add in democrats "wining" and I'm pretty sure this post belongs on a Confederate cooking blog rather than HN.
      - danielmarkbruce 9mo ago
        Except that he might be right... if you think there is no chance he's right, you aren't paying attention. These are strange times.
      - DoesntMatter22 9mo ago
        Europe can’t defend itself without the US. That’s not the Us saying it that is coming from Europe itself. All this stuff is mostly grandstanding
        SideburnsOfDoom 9mo ago
        > Europe can’t defend itself without the US. It depends on what exactly Europe needs to defend itself against. And Europe is quite rightly starting to regard this US-dependence as a problem to be solved without further delay, rather than an eternal and immutable fact of the world.
      - ExoticPearTree 9mo ago
        > This is some top notch r/ShitAmericansSay material, especially Germany "running their mouth" and having bad food. I'm not American and please, please, please tell me about a german dish that is actually on par with what the French make.
  - ben_w 9mo ago
    > People don't quite realize how big a deal "invading" Greenland would have been. That's literally an act of war! What's next, occupying France? Saying that it's at all a possibility is far beyond any red line that the EU thought it would have to deal with. Yes, absolutely, I agree. Thing is, in the end he backed off, so the result was all talk. He TACOed. For everyone's sake (including Americans'), I absolutely 100% want the EU to disentangle as much as possible and as fast as possible from the US so that we don't even feel the need to be polite to Trump in the future: he obviously sees the world as only predators to be scared of and prey to consume, so it's better for us (everyone, not just the EU) to become big and scary really fast so he doesn't even try anything. If he were to invade (anywhere, not just Greenland), that place and their allies basically have two options: fight or die. > Not only would the rest of the world ditch the USA, but the Democrats themselves would take the opportunity to publically announce that they do not recognize Donald Trump's government. I wish, but humans aren't like that. The Democrat leadership keep pulling defeat from the jaws of victory, and people are the same everywhere so an external threat is more likely to pull everyone together than to split them apart (same for everyone else is why the EU and Canada are warming, or at least thawing, their relationships with the rest of the world). What might have happened before an invasion was enough Republicans finally kicking him out (with Democrat support), or a US military coup (I'd say 50% if it got that far, but with high uncertainty). A military coup would also be a crossed Rubicon. But the military don't like traitors, and betraying an ally by invading it is an act of treachery.
    - throaway54 9mo ago
      No, the Democrats would do it precisely because of cynical human interest (they are like that). Donald Trump Republicans invading a Western nation plays right into their hands. They may as well just hand Gavin Newsom the next election. The overwhelming majority of US citizens do not approve of USA invading Greenland.
    - palata 9mo ago
      > Thing is, in the end he backed off, so the result was all talk. He TACOed. But for a few days (and probably still now), many people considered it was a real possibility. I don't think it matters whether the US meant it or not. What matters is whether the Europeans believed it or not. Trust is about belief.