5 ms·

As a backend engineer I really like where all of this is going. In many many cases you do not need anything beyond what HTMX provides, and it makes the build an

As a backend engineer I really like where all of this is going. In many many cases you do not need anything beyond what HTMX provides, and it makes the build and testing process so much simpler, and faster too

AreShoesFeet000 9mo ago
We live in a backend dictatorship after all don’t we?
CraigJPerry 9mo ago
This levels concept resonates with me: https://www.lorenstew.art/blog/progressive-complexity-manifesto https://www.lorenstew.art/blog/progressive-complexity-manife... There are cases where you need more than htmx / datastar, but i like the explicit calling out of when these boundaries occur (e.g. you've exceeded what "islands" can give you), and i like the gravitational pull to lower levels.
- andersmurphy 9mo ago
  The limitations of HTMX are not the same as the limitations of Datastar. Datastar is a whole other beast with only a few at most vestigial similarities to HTMX. You can't do virtual scroll over a billion checkboxes in HTMX (I've yet to see anyone manage in react for that matter either), yet you can do it easily in Datastar. [1] [1] https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com
  - recursivedoubts 9mo ago
    that is an amazing demo anders!
    - andersmurphy 9mo ago
      Thanks Carson. Although honestly it's pretty mid compared to what's actually possible in hypermedia. The only reason I wheel it out is when people say you can't do X (often meaning react like things) with hypermedia. Honestly, you could probably do it in HTMX if you are prepared to only use out of bounds swaps, morph and SSE. But, that approach has always felt second class, unfinished and against the grain. So stuff like that isn't done. Always made me sad that you wrote idiomorph (thanks for sharing it with the world) but didn't make it part of HTMX. I guess HTMX 4 will change that?
      - recursivedoubts 9mo ago
        yep, it was an extension in htmx 2, but we are gonna include in htmx 4 (i'm old and move slow)

AreShoesFeet000 9mo ago

We live in a backend dictatorship after all don’t we?

CraigJPerry 9mo ago

This levels concept resonates with me: https://www.lorenstew.art/blog/progressive-complexity-manifesto https://www.lorenstew.art/blog/progressive-complexity-manife... There are cases where you need more than htmx / datastar, but i like the explicit calling out of when these boundaries occur (e.g. you've exceeded what "islands" can give you), and i like the gravitational pull to lower levels.

andersmurphy 9mo ago
The limitations of HTMX are not the same as the limitations of Datastar. Datastar is a whole other beast with only a few at most vestigial similarities to HTMX. You can't do virtual scroll over a billion checkboxes in HTMX (I've yet to see anyone manage in react for that matter either), yet you can do it easily in Datastar. [1] [1] https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com
- recursivedoubts 9mo ago
  that is an amazing demo anders!
  - andersmurphy 9mo ago
    Thanks Carson. Although honestly it's pretty mid compared to what's actually possible in hypermedia. The only reason I wheel it out is when people say you can't do X (often meaning react like things) with hypermedia. Honestly, you could probably do it in HTMX if you are prepared to only use out of bounds swaps, morph and SSE. But, that approach has always felt second class, unfinished and against the grain. So stuff like that isn't done. Always made me sad that you wrote idiomorph (thanks for sharing it with the world) but didn't make it part of HTMX. I guess HTMX 4 will change that?
    - recursivedoubts 9mo ago
      yep, it was an extension in htmx 2, but we are gonna include in htmx 4 (i'm old and move slow)