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Taxing bullion is absurd - it’s not a product but more like currency or a placeholder of money you already have. What other taxes are they passing when you say

Taxing bullion is absurd - it’s not a product but more like currency or a placeholder of money you already have. What other taxes are they passing when you say “frenzy”?

jfengel 9mo ago
Why is it more like a currency than any other object? It's not negotiable currency or legal tender. People buy it and sell it. I don't see any difference between bullion, iron ore, frozen concentrated orange juice, and Pokemon cards. You buy a thing, you pay the sales tax.
- its_ethan 9mo ago
  Well it's more like a currency than any other object because it has been used historically to either a) be the currency, or b) back the currency. Sure that's not true today in the United States, but like, it's obviously different than frozen concentrated orange juice... can we not at least agree on that pretty tame assumption? Or is this just some semantics race to non-meaning? Iron ore is similar physically, but it's really just a raw input material/ingredient used for heavy industrial manufacturing and production, it's never been intended to be an appreciating asset/hedge against inflation. I'm unfamiliar with whatever tax is being referred to in this specific comment thread, but I'd be curious how something like $SIVR is handled, considering it's backed by actual silver in vaults. That could lead to some unintended consequences if the investment plans of a lot of money suddenly changes how it's being allocated.
  - quickthrowman 9mo ago
    > Iron ore is similar physically, but it's really just a raw input material/ingredient used for heavy industrial manufacturing and production, it's never been intended to be an appreciating asset/hedge against inflation, not any intrinsic property of gold itself. Gold is not intended to be an asset/hedge against inflation either. Market participants believe that gold has value and that it can hedge against inflation. The belief is what gives life to gold being as a hedge against inflation. Gold is not an asset, it’s a commodity, an industrial input, and material for jewelry, and for some reason I fail to understand, people buy and hold it because they believe it is an asset that will appreciate in value, but it’s just an elementary metal that is useful for being easy to work with (jewelry) and because it doesn’t oxidize. It does not generate income, you can’t eat it, and in a post-apocalyptic scenario, it’s useless. I suppose the density of gold would allow some very small, very high mass slingshot balls you could defend yourself against people with?
    - jazzyjackson 9mo ago
      A system is what it does, and gold is popular for jewelry because it’s a useful way to wear money. Off topic and this might be apocryphal, but I heard on the internet a good reason to keep “money” in the form of gold chains and other jewelry, is that it counts as personal property, so if you’re arrested during a drug bust or trafficking women, your cash and bank accounts may be seized, but whatever you wear to prison gets put in a ziplock bag and returned to you when you leave :)
dmos62 9mo ago
Is taxing investment absurd?
- kyboren 9mo ago
  "Tax what you want less of." Do you want less investment?
  - mapontosevenths 9mo ago
    Gold is not an investment. It takes otherwise productive capital out of the economy and produces nothing. It's functionally no different than stuffing your money in a mattress.
    - kajecounterhack 9mo ago
      It has utility though: unlike the dollars in your mattress, it can't be printed into oblivion by your central bank. It is relatively portable, and people have flocked to it as a store of value especially during periods of socioeconomic instability when assets are going down and gov't spending is going up. It's tradeable for fiat in any country, so it allows you to bring value along if you relocate. Its price reflects that utility and like any modern asset, a lot of speculation. You can speculate on whether it's more or less useful given current events -- nothing wrong with speculating that it is only going to be increasingly useful.
      - mapontosevenths 9mo ago
        You're right that it has utility, but being fungible doesnt imply that it is automatically an investment. Speculation is not the same as investment, and it is still completely non-productive.
        kajecounterhack 9mo ago
        Agree it doesn't generate wealth. It's explicitly a store of wealth. Investment is a weird term because most people would consider keeping cash or cash equivalents (gold) to be investments, even if they don't generate wealth. Cash is also an opinion, in terms of the market.
15155 9mo ago
https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/?BillNumber=1386&Year=2025&Initiative=false https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/?BillNumber=1386&Year=202...
robotresearcher 9mo ago
Gold hasn't been money since 1971.
loglog 9mo ago
Wealth tax is the best type of tax, because it incentivizes productive activities against speculation. It should be levied on a continuous basis rather than on transaction basis though, which is just basic numerical analysis.
- fuzzfactor 9mo ago
  Not my downvote, but the least devastating tax is only on commerce, and it has to be at insignificant levels to keep from resuting in undue damage. Taxing wealth, property, wage income, or just plain existence has always sapped productivity like few other things. It's foolish to try and tax "wealth" when you should instead be taxing the creation of wealth as it's in progress and nothing else. When actual ongoing business operations are going forward is the only time anybody can truly afford to pay any significant tax at all. Even if they are billionaires, and I say this as someone at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Ordinary wage income doesn't even make sense to tax whatsoever when you want max productivity, unless income is excessive enough to reach so far above average that greater capitalist profits can be earned on the surplus. Then maybe more than just those gains should be taxed.
WalterBright 9mo ago
> What other taxes are they passing when you say “frenzy”? https://www.ballardspahr.com/insights/alerts-and-articles/2025/05/wa-passes-significant-tax-increases-affecting-both-businesses-and-consumers https://www.ballardspahr.com/insights/alerts-and-articles/20... It's incomplete, it doesn't list the gold tax.

Taxing bullion is absurd - it’s not a product but more like currency or a placeholder of money you already have. What other taxes are they passing when you say “frenzy”?

jfengel 9mo ago

Why is it more like a currency than any other object? It's not negotiable currency or legal tender. People buy it and sell it. I don't see any difference between bullion, iron ore, frozen concentrated orange juice, and Pokemon cards. You buy a thing, you pay the sales tax.

its_ethan 9mo ago
Well it's more like a currency than any other object because it has been used historically to either a) be the currency, or b) back the currency. Sure that's not true today in the United States, but like, it's obviously different than frozen concentrated orange juice... can we not at least agree on that pretty tame assumption? Or is this just some semantics race to non-meaning? Iron ore is similar physically, but it's really just a raw input material/ingredient used for heavy industrial manufacturing and production, it's never been intended to be an appreciating asset/hedge against inflation. I'm unfamiliar with whatever tax is being referred to in this specific comment thread, but I'd be curious how something like $SIVR is handled, considering it's backed by actual silver in vaults. That could lead to some unintended consequences if the investment plans of a lot of money suddenly changes how it's being allocated.
- quickthrowman 9mo ago
  > Iron ore is similar physically, but it's really just a raw input material/ingredient used for heavy industrial manufacturing and production, it's never been intended to be an appreciating asset/hedge against inflation, not any intrinsic property of gold itself. Gold is not intended to be an asset/hedge against inflation either. Market participants believe that gold has value and that it can hedge against inflation. The belief is what gives life to gold being as a hedge against inflation. Gold is not an asset, it’s a commodity, an industrial input, and material for jewelry, and for some reason I fail to understand, people buy and hold it because they believe it is an asset that will appreciate in value, but it’s just an elementary metal that is useful for being easy to work with (jewelry) and because it doesn’t oxidize. It does not generate income, you can’t eat it, and in a post-apocalyptic scenario, it’s useless. I suppose the density of gold would allow some very small, very high mass slingshot balls you could defend yourself against people with?
  - jazzyjackson 9mo ago
    A system is what it does, and gold is popular for jewelry because it’s a useful way to wear money. Off topic and this might be apocryphal, but I heard on the internet a good reason to keep “money” in the form of gold chains and other jewelry, is that it counts as personal property, so if you’re arrested during a drug bust or trafficking women, your cash and bank accounts may be seized, but whatever you wear to prison gets put in a ziplock bag and returned to you when you leave :)

dmos62 9mo ago

Is taxing investment absurd?

kyboren 9mo ago
"Tax what you want less of." Do you want less investment?
- mapontosevenths 9mo ago
  Gold is not an investment. It takes otherwise productive capital out of the economy and produces nothing. It's functionally no different than stuffing your money in a mattress.
  - kajecounterhack 9mo ago
    It has utility though: unlike the dollars in your mattress, it can't be printed into oblivion by your central bank. It is relatively portable, and people have flocked to it as a store of value especially during periods of socioeconomic instability when assets are going down and gov't spending is going up. It's tradeable for fiat in any country, so it allows you to bring value along if you relocate. Its price reflects that utility and like any modern asset, a lot of speculation. You can speculate on whether it's more or less useful given current events -- nothing wrong with speculating that it is only going to be increasingly useful.
    - mapontosevenths 9mo ago
      You're right that it has utility, but being fungible doesnt imply that it is automatically an investment. Speculation is not the same as investment, and it is still completely non-productive.
      - kajecounterhack 9mo ago
        Agree it doesn't generate wealth. It's explicitly a store of wealth. Investment is a weird term because most people would consider keeping cash or cash equivalents (gold) to be investments, even if they don't generate wealth. Cash is also an opinion, in terms of the market.

15155 9mo ago

https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/?BillNumber=1386&Year=2025&Initiative=false https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/?BillNumber=1386&Year=202...

robotresearcher 9mo ago

Gold hasn't been money since 1971.

loglog 9mo ago

Wealth tax is the best type of tax, because it incentivizes productive activities against speculation. It should be levied on a continuous basis rather than on transaction basis though, which is just basic numerical analysis.

fuzzfactor 9mo ago
Not my downvote, but the least devastating tax is only on commerce, and it has to be at insignificant levels to keep from resuting in undue damage. Taxing wealth, property, wage income, or just plain existence has always sapped productivity like few other things. It's foolish to try and tax "wealth" when you should instead be taxing the creation of wealth as it's in progress and nothing else. When actual ongoing business operations are going forward is the only time anybody can truly afford to pay any significant tax at all. Even if they are billionaires, and I say this as someone at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Ordinary wage income doesn't even make sense to tax whatsoever when you want max productivity, unless income is excessive enough to reach so far above average that greater capitalist profits can be earned on the surplus. Then maybe more than just those gains should be taxed.

WalterBright 9mo ago

> What other taxes are they passing when you say “frenzy”? https://www.ballardspahr.com/insights/alerts-and-articles/2025/05/wa-passes-significant-tax-increases-affecting-both-businesses-and-consumers https://www.ballardspahr.com/insights/alerts-and-articles/20... It's incomplete, it doesn't list the gold tax.