4 ms·

My current FSD usage is 90% over ~2000 miles (since v14.x). Besides driving everywhere, everyday with FSD, I have driven 4 hours garage to hotel valet without

My current FSD usage is 90% over ~2000 miles (since v14.x). Besides driving everywhere, everyday with FSD, I have driven 4 hours garage to hotel valet without intervention. It is absolutely "Full Self-Driving" and "Autonomous". FSD isn't perfect, but it is everyday amazing and useful.

jasoncartwright 8mo ago
Yet still on relying you to cover it with your insurance. Again, clearly not autonomous.
- dzhiurgis 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - zen928 8mo ago
    Disagree. I appreciate their viewpoint tethering corporate claims to reality by illustrating Tesla is obfuscating the classification of their machines to be autonomous, when they actually aren't. Their comments in other thread chains proved to be fruitful when lacking agitators looking to dismiss critique by citing website rules, like the post adding additional detail to how Tesla muddles legal claims by cooking up cherry-picked evidence that work against the driver despite being the insurer.
- AlotOfReading 8mo ago
  Liability is a separate matter from autonomy. I assume you'd consider yourself autonomous, yet it's your employer's insurance that will be liable if you have an accident while driving a company vehicle. If the company required a representative to sit in the car with you and participate in the driving (e.g. by monitoring and taking over before an accident), then there's a case to be made that you're not fully autonomous.
  - buran77 8mo ago
    > it's your employer's insurance that will be liable if you have an accident while driving a company vehicle I think you're mixing some concepts. There's car insurance paid by the owner of the car, for the car. There's workplace accident insurance, paid by the employer for the employee. The liability isn't assigned by default, but by determining who's responsible. The driver is always legally responsible for accidents caused by their negligence. If you play with your phone behind the wheel and kill someone, even while working and driving a company car, the company's insurance might pay for the damage but you go to prison. The company will recover the money from you. Their work accident insurance will pay nothing. The test you can run in your head: will you get arrested if you fall asleep at the wheel and crash? If yes, then it's not autonomous or self driving. It just has driver assistance. It's not that the car can't drive itself at all, just that it doesn't meet the bar for the entire legal concept of "driver/driving". "Almost" self driving is like jumping over a canyon and almost making it to the other side. Good effort, bad outcome.
wat10000 8mo ago
If it was full self driving, wouldn't your usage be 100%?
- FeloniousHam 8mo ago
  > It's not perfect, Probably about 90% perfect! Obviously we don't agree on the definition.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- pests 8mo ago
  Sometimes a car is fun to drive.
  - fragmede 8mo ago
    It refuses to engage above, like, 80.
JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
> My current FSD usage is 90% over ~2000 miles I'd guess my Subaru's lane-keeping utilisation is in the same ballpark. (By miles, not minutes. And yes, I'm safer when it and I are watching the road than when I'm watching the road alone.)
- FeloniousHam 8mo ago
  I don't want minimize the efforts of other manufacturers (I'm sure they'll all have Tesla's features in the next generation), but: my wife has a Subaru Outback, and the two systems are as close in functionality as humans are to chimpanzees. The differences are many, stark and subtle (that Subaru screen), I'd just say take a test drive with FSD.
- olyjohn 8mo ago
  My favorite feature of Subaru's system is when you change lanes, and it stays locked onto the car in the slower lane and slams on the brakes. People behind you love that.

jasoncartwright 8mo ago

Yet still on relying you to cover it with your insurance. Again, clearly not autonomous.

dzhiurgis 8mo ago
[flagged]
- zen928 8mo ago
  Disagree. I appreciate their viewpoint tethering corporate claims to reality by illustrating Tesla is obfuscating the classification of their machines to be autonomous, when they actually aren't. Their comments in other thread chains proved to be fruitful when lacking agitators looking to dismiss critique by citing website rules, like the post adding additional detail to how Tesla muddles legal claims by cooking up cherry-picked evidence that work against the driver despite being the insurer.
AlotOfReading 8mo ago
Liability is a separate matter from autonomy. I assume you'd consider yourself autonomous, yet it's your employer's insurance that will be liable if you have an accident while driving a company vehicle. If the company required a representative to sit in the car with you and participate in the driving (e.g. by monitoring and taking over before an accident), then there's a case to be made that you're not fully autonomous.
- buran77 8mo ago
  > it's your employer's insurance that will be liable if you have an accident while driving a company vehicle I think you're mixing some concepts. There's car insurance paid by the owner of the car, for the car. There's workplace accident insurance, paid by the employer for the employee. The liability isn't assigned by default, but by determining who's responsible. The driver is always legally responsible for accidents caused by their negligence. If you play with your phone behind the wheel and kill someone, even while working and driving a company car, the company's insurance might pay for the damage but you go to prison. The company will recover the money from you. Their work accident insurance will pay nothing. The test you can run in your head: will you get arrested if you fall asleep at the wheel and crash? If yes, then it's not autonomous or self driving. It just has driver assistance. It's not that the car can't drive itself at all, just that it doesn't meet the bar for the entire legal concept of "driver/driving". "Almost" self driving is like jumping over a canyon and almost making it to the other side. Good effort, bad outcome.

wat10000 8mo ago

If it was full self driving, wouldn't your usage be 100%?

FeloniousHam 8mo ago
> It's not perfect, Probably about 90% perfect! Obviously we don't agree on the definition.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
pests 8mo ago
Sometimes a car is fun to drive.
- fragmede 8mo ago
  It refuses to engage above, like, 80.

JumpCrisscross 8mo ago

> My current FSD usage is 90% over ~2000 miles I'd guess my Subaru's lane-keeping utilisation is in the same ballpark. (By miles, not minutes. And yes, I'm safer when it and I are watching the road than when I'm watching the road alone.)

FeloniousHam 8mo ago
I don't want minimize the efforts of other manufacturers (I'm sure they'll all have Tesla's features in the next generation), but: my wife has a Subaru Outback, and the two systems are as close in functionality as humans are to chimpanzees. The differences are many, stark and subtle (that Subaru screen), I'd just say take a test drive with FSD.
olyjohn 8mo ago
My favorite feature of Subaru's system is when you change lanes, and it stays locked onto the car in the slower lane and slams on the brakes. People behind you love that.