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Because the operator is liable? Tesla as a company isn't driving the car, it's a ML model running on something like HW4 on bare metal in the car itself. Would t
by jgbuddy 8mo ago
Because the operator is liable? Tesla as a company isn't driving the car, it's a ML model running on something like HW4 on bare metal in the car itself. Would that make the silicon die legally liable?
- throw20251220 8mo agoWho’s the “operator” of an “autonomous” car? If I sit in it and it drives me around, how am I an “operator”?
- renewiltord 8mo agoIf you get on a horse and let go of the reins you are also considered the operator of the horse. Such are the definitions in our society.
- kyleee 8mo agoGreat analogy, lol
- jasoncartwright 8mo agoSounds like it's neither self-driving, nor autonomous, if I'm on the hook if it goes wrong.
- scottbez1 8mo agoYeah, Tesla gets to blame the “driver”, and has a history of releasing partial and carefully curated subsets of data from crashes to try to shift as much blame onto the driver as possible. And the system is designed to set up drivers for failure. An HCI challenge with mostly autonomous systems is that operators lose their awareness of the system, and when things go wrong you can easily get worse outcomes than if the system was fully manual with an engaged operator. This is a well known challenge in the nuclear energy sector and airline industry (Air France 447) - how do you keep operators fully engaged even though they almost never need to intervene, because otherwise they’re likely to be missing critical context and make wrong decisions. These days you could probably argue the same is true of software engineers reviewing LLM code that’s often - but not always - correct.
- redanddead 8mo ago> has a history of releasing partial and carefully curated subsets of data from crashes to try to shift as much blame onto the driver as possible Really? Thats crazy.
- thelastgallon 8mo agoIts neither self-driving, nor autonomous, eventually not even a car! (as Tesla slowly exits the car business). It will be 'insurance' on Speculation as a service, as Tesla skyrockets to $20T market cap. Tesla will successfully transition from a small revenue to pre-revenue company: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYJdKW-UnFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYJdKW-UnFQ The last few years of Tesla 'growth' show how this transition is unfolding. S and X production is shutdown, just a few more models to shutdown.
- rubyfan 8mo agoI wonder if they will try to sell off the car business once they can hype up something else. It seems odd to just let the car business die.
- redanddead 8mo agoWild prediction, would love to hear the rest of it
- iwontberude 8mo agoEspecially since they can push regressions over the air and you could be lulled into a sense of safety and robustness that isn’t there and bam you pay the costs of the regressions, not Tesla.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- close04 8mo agoThe point is if the liability is always exclusively with the human driver then any system in that car is at best a "driver assist". Claims that "it drives itself" or "it's autonomous" are just varying degrees of lying. I call it a partial lie rather than a partial truth because the result more often than not is that the customer is tricked into thinking the system is more capable than it is, and because that outcome is more dangerous than the opposite. Any car has varying degrees of autonomy, even the ones with no assists (it will safely self-drive you all the way to the accident site, as they say). But the car is either driven by the human with the system's help, or is driven by the system with or without the human's help. A car can't have 2 drivers. The only real one is the one the law holds responsible.