4 ms·

I'm not sure how defensible the lead was. The only reason BYD isn't the only game in town is tariffs. The pivot to Optimus is ridiculous though. They can't get

by SJMG 9mo ago

I'm not sure how defensible the lead was. The only reason BYD isn't the only game in town is tariffs. The pivot to Optimus is ridiculous though. They can't get a car to drive truly autonomously after more than a decade and they want to expand the degrees of freedom?

eloisant 9mo ago
Tesla had a good brand image in the early 2010, they could have positioned themselves like the quality/luxury brand for EV and have people buy Tesla for the brand itself like people do for Apple. Instead they let Elon made their brand so toxic people are actively avoiding it.
- ghaff 9mo ago
  I'm skeptical. If someone really wants a Tesla, my guess is that they'll rationalize Musk's actions or least compartmentalize them.
  - sejje 9mo ago
    I think Facebook is even more universally thought of as a bad company, and everyone still engages there, too.
    - estearum 9mo ago
      Difference is their product is so good as to be basically irreplaceable (good = strong network effects, which is the only flavor of "good" that matters)
    - bluGill 9mo ago
      Facebook as a monopoly of a sort and so is hard to get away from. If I don't like Tesla there are many other options. Even if you only buy EVs, there are a lot of options that you can buy today. The only people who have to buy Tesla are the type who are buying 10 year old EVs (the limited range on 10 year old Nissan rules them out).
      - ghaff 9mo ago
        Well, lots of people don't use Facebook. But you're right that there aren't any real like for like replacements. Of course, Twitter was a quasi-monopoly as well. That said, Bluesky emerged but only as an alternative with much less critical mass.
    - HWR_14 9mo ago
      There are network effects to social networks that do not apply to choice of vehicle
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    That was 10-15 years ago, but back then Musk appeared different, and Telsa was new. Today you can buy a Tesla, they are no longer the status symbol they once were. A 15 year old Mercedes is a status symbol in the US, a 15 year old Tesla is not, Tesla didn't capture the status symbol market (which might have been a good decision - what wasn't a good decision was for the CEO to go public about political views that are lot of his potential base to not support)
    - kevin_thibedeau 9mo ago
      A 15 year old Mercedes is a falling apart PoS maintenance nightmare driven by someone with a lack of common sense.
      - overfeed 9mo ago
        They still look like luxury, though. Here's a 2011 entry-level Mercedes https://www.edmunds.com/assets/m/for-sale/38-wddgf8bb5br153309/img-1-600x400.jpg https://www.edmunds.com/assets/m/for-sale/38-wddgf8bb5br1533...
  - estearum 9mo ago
    No, it's the reverse. Someone who finds Musk's behavior so abhorrent they fear being affiliated with it will actually find reasons they don't really want a Tesla. It doesn't help that Tesla, making extremely low quality and uncomfortable cars for the price point, provides plenty of dislikable things to find.
- sejje 9mo ago
  Some people. Others are actively embracing it. Most people don't know about the political aspect.
mcpar-land 9mo ago
I'm glad Tesla is pivoting to a product that can drop your bag of groceries in the worst case, instead of one that can slam you into a concrete divider at 75mph.
- tsimionescu 9mo ago
  In general, any robot that has servos powerful enough to be any of use is surprisingly dangerous to be around. While it's much easier to apply various limiters, the raw power in those engines will always pose a significant level of risk if anything goes wrong. If you're hovering above a human who sits up suddenly, you might get your nose broken. If it's a robot instead, it will have the strength and mass to easily mutilate you in the same kind of accident.
  - pardon_me 9mo ago
    I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took a roundhouse kick to the head. Never let your humanoid robot watch TV!
- flakeoil 9mo ago
  The robot could leave the ironer standing on your clothes and walk away; it could leave your empty pan on the stove at max heating; it could take a nice hard grip of your throat for a few minutes.

by SJMG 9mo ago

eloisant 9mo ago

Tesla had a good brand image in the early 2010, they could have positioned themselves like the quality/luxury brand for EV and have people buy Tesla for the brand itself like people do for Apple. Instead they let Elon made their brand so toxic people are actively avoiding it.

ghaff 9mo ago
I'm skeptical. If someone really wants a Tesla, my guess is that they'll rationalize Musk's actions or least compartmentalize them.
- sejje 9mo ago
  I think Facebook is even more universally thought of as a bad company, and everyone still engages there, too.
  - estearum 9mo ago
    Difference is their product is so good as to be basically irreplaceable (good = strong network effects, which is the only flavor of "good" that matters)
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    Facebook as a monopoly of a sort and so is hard to get away from. If I don't like Tesla there are many other options. Even if you only buy EVs, there are a lot of options that you can buy today. The only people who have to buy Tesla are the type who are buying 10 year old EVs (the limited range on 10 year old Nissan rules them out).
    - ghaff 9mo ago
      Well, lots of people don't use Facebook. But you're right that there aren't any real like for like replacements. Of course, Twitter was a quasi-monopoly as well. That said, Bluesky emerged but only as an alternative with much less critical mass.
  - HWR_14 9mo ago
    There are network effects to social networks that do not apply to choice of vehicle
- bluGill 9mo ago
  That was 10-15 years ago, but back then Musk appeared different, and Telsa was new. Today you can buy a Tesla, they are no longer the status symbol they once were. A 15 year old Mercedes is a status symbol in the US, a 15 year old Tesla is not, Tesla didn't capture the status symbol market (which might have been a good decision - what wasn't a good decision was for the CEO to go public about political views that are lot of his potential base to not support)
  - kevin_thibedeau 9mo ago
    A 15 year old Mercedes is a falling apart PoS maintenance nightmare driven by someone with a lack of common sense.
    - overfeed 9mo ago
      They still look like luxury, though. Here's a 2011 entry-level Mercedes https://www.edmunds.com/assets/m/for-sale/38-wddgf8bb5br153309/img-1-600x400.jpg https://www.edmunds.com/assets/m/for-sale/38-wddgf8bb5br1533...
- estearum 9mo ago
  No, it's the reverse. Someone who finds Musk's behavior so abhorrent they fear being affiliated with it will actually find reasons they don't really want a Tesla. It doesn't help that Tesla, making extremely low quality and uncomfortable cars for the price point, provides plenty of dislikable things to find.
sejje 9mo ago
Some people. Others are actively embracing it. Most people don't know about the political aspect.

mcpar-land 9mo ago

I'm glad Tesla is pivoting to a product that can drop your bag of groceries in the worst case, instead of one that can slam you into a concrete divider at 75mph.

tsimionescu 9mo ago
In general, any robot that has servos powerful enough to be any of use is surprisingly dangerous to be around. While it's much easier to apply various limiters, the raw power in those engines will always pose a significant level of risk if anything goes wrong. If you're hovering above a human who sits up suddenly, you might get your nose broken. If it's a robot instead, it will have the strength and mass to easily mutilate you in the same kind of accident.
- pardon_me 9mo ago
  I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took a roundhouse kick to the head. Never let your humanoid robot watch TV!
flakeoil 9mo ago
The robot could leave the ironer standing on your clothes and walk away; it could leave your empty pan on the stove at max heating; it could take a nice hard grip of your throat for a few minutes.