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China probably. No I don't think it is better but at least their leadership is actually sane. Evil, but sane and predictable.

scotty79 9mo ago
Even the evil adjective starts to look debatable in contrast to what current hegemony is doing on its way down. Apparently their worst offence so far was calmly outgrowing and out competing their peers while benefiting global consumers with he fruits of organized labor of their own society.
- philipallstar 9mo ago
  I'm particularly annoyed that the US is for the people of Iran and not, like China, for the government of Iran. And the US putting secondary sanctions on Russian oil to starve Putin from Chinese and Indian oil revenues? Disgusting.
  - wolvoleo 9mo ago
    The US is for the oil of Iran, not its people. Just like it doesn't actually care about the people of Venezuela, just its oil.
- wolvoleo 9mo ago
  I was referring more to the millions of Uyghurs in political prisons and their overreaching surveillance of the population. And I was just speaking of what I think about China, not saying the current US administration is any better. I don't think it will be there forever though.
  - scotty79 9mo ago
    Right the Uyghurs, a word we never knew before. When faced with credible threat of islamic terror in their country China implemented some harsh, systemic ideas about what to do with it. I'm sure if they just started two wars in the middle east instead the western community would be way more lenient towards them. China did what it though was the correct thing and the west happily classified it as racism and religious persecution. However when the pandemic came China had zero restraint towards applying harsh measures on the bulk of their population regardless of race and relligion. And while their solutions are harsh and possibly incorrect is it really unique on the global stage? US, the shining city on the hill, when faced with a problem of having inadequate social support systems to help the more recent immigrants decided that it will try to build concentration camps on the teritorry of one of their closest vassals. This can't be correct or humane solution either. And when it comes to surveillance, China is on the forefront, but US and UK closely follow. What's different is that China does their surveillance overtly and tries to make it socially useful. I don't for one second believe that technologically Palantir and such are more than one step behind.
    - wolvoleo 9mo ago
      Your comments are all about "the US is bad too" which I consider whataboutism. I am not from the US nor live there and I was opposed to all the wars in the middle east and to palantir and the Snowden revelations etc. But that doesn't make what China does better in any way. And those millions of Uyghurs they locked up couldn't possibly all be terrorists. That makes it racism and religious persecution. Ps how is Cuba a vassal state of the US? When you speak of a concentration camp I assume you refer to Guantanamo?
      - scotty79 9mo ago
        Whataboutism is when someone tries to wipe the issue from the dialog by steering conversation towards a different issue of the same nature. I mostly acknowledge that China implemented less than stellar ideas. I'm merely suggesting that such things should be evaluated in the context. I don't believe in objective morality so how moral you are must be evaluated in relation to your peers. > And those millions of Uyghurs they locked up couldn't possibly all be terrorists. They were unassimilated population that China believed (while watching the west) might breed trouble. This alone makes the comparison with what US is doing right now pretty fair. > That makes it racism and religious persecution. Chinese was locking up all ethnic and religious groups during the pandemic. That might point to an explanation that maybe religion and race is irrelevant. Only safety matters. If westerners did that it would be racism and religious persecution. But in a culture that gives a very little thought to both race and religion saying that might be just western projection. > Ps how is Cuba a vassal state of the US? When you speak of a concentration camp I assume you refer to Guantanamo? No. I'm talking about Salvador and a place built with US money where people that ICE has no idea where to send back are kept indefinitely. But I don't want to discuss that, to avoid whataboutism. I'm just telling it to provide background for evaluation how terrible were the things that China did.
- throwawayqqq11 9mo ago
  Iam sceptical whether china is more evil than the current and historic US. Both countries have commited atrocities but the US was way more involved "for their interests overseas". Maybe the western distrust towards china will make it a different power equilibrium.
- Buxato 9mo ago
  If you think that's the worst offence then you should check the recent and past news more often.
  - scotty79 9mo ago
    What was the most grusome Chinese offence you learned about form the news recently?
- card_zero 9mo ago
  Stop getting Chinese territory under your fishing boats! Leave immediately for correct and healthy harmony! Fires water cannon
  - RobotToaster 9mo ago
    As opposed to America who uses cruise missiles on fishing boats in a different continent?
- RobotToaster 9mo ago
  Maoist protracted people's war has traditionally relied on being less of an asshole to the peasants than the enemy.
mschuster91 9mo ago
China wants but China won't. They lack the military capability of force projection that is the basis of the US dollar dominance, their currency cannot be used as a reserve/trading currency due to capital transfer controls (that have no sign of ever going away because otherwise everyone who has money in China will move it immediately out of the reach of the CCP), foreign investors have gotten very skeptical over the years regarding IP theft on one side and supply chain law issues (e.g. underage labor, 996 and modern slavery, environmental concerns) on the other, and on top of that China is getting rocked hard by the inevitable consequences of the one-child policy that is driving up labor costs, further reducing the attractivity for foreign investors.
- bborud 9mo ago
  China doesn’t need to project force. Economics might is sufficient. Yes, they want Taiwan, but that’s a silly national pride thing. It would not really benefit them to take it by force.
  - mschuster91 9mo ago
    > Yes, they want Taiwan, but that’s a silly national pride thing. It would not really benefit them to take it by force. We thought the same about Putin, and yet he went and invaded Ukraine. We thought the same about Trump, and yet he went and abducted the president of a sovereign country. Never underestimate nationalist BS or outright mental deficiency.
    - bborud 9mo ago
      The difference is desperation. Putin was facing instability and was afraid of ending up like Khadafi. He needed a war. Xi is not facing those challenges. He wants Taiwan, but the Chinese play long games so he can wait.
      - mschuster91 9mo ago
        > Xi is not facing those challenges. He is facing other challenges, a lot of chickens are coming home to roost - chiefly the demographic collapse, the inevitable result of the one-child policy, but also the rise of wages leading other countries to be the outsourcing target, decades of selling out nature / the environment, a crashing real estate sector, brain drain...

scotty79 9mo ago

Even the evil adjective starts to look debatable in contrast to what current hegemony is doing on its way down. Apparently their worst offence so far was calmly outgrowing and out competing their peers while benefiting global consumers with he fruits of organized labor of their own society.

philipallstar 9mo ago
I'm particularly annoyed that the US is for the people of Iran and not, like China, for the government of Iran. And the US putting secondary sanctions on Russian oil to starve Putin from Chinese and Indian oil revenues? Disgusting.
- wolvoleo 9mo ago
  The US is for the oil of Iran, not its people. Just like it doesn't actually care about the people of Venezuela, just its oil.
wolvoleo 9mo ago
I was referring more to the millions of Uyghurs in political prisons and their overreaching surveillance of the population. And I was just speaking of what I think about China, not saying the current US administration is any better. I don't think it will be there forever though.
- scotty79 9mo ago
  Right the Uyghurs, a word we never knew before. When faced with credible threat of islamic terror in their country China implemented some harsh, systemic ideas about what to do with it. I'm sure if they just started two wars in the middle east instead the western community would be way more lenient towards them. China did what it though was the correct thing and the west happily classified it as racism and religious persecution. However when the pandemic came China had zero restraint towards applying harsh measures on the bulk of their population regardless of race and relligion. And while their solutions are harsh and possibly incorrect is it really unique on the global stage? US, the shining city on the hill, when faced with a problem of having inadequate social support systems to help the more recent immigrants decided that it will try to build concentration camps on the teritorry of one of their closest vassals. This can't be correct or humane solution either. And when it comes to surveillance, China is on the forefront, but US and UK closely follow. What's different is that China does their surveillance overtly and tries to make it socially useful. I don't for one second believe that technologically Palantir and such are more than one step behind.
  - wolvoleo 9mo ago
    Your comments are all about "the US is bad too" which I consider whataboutism. I am not from the US nor live there and I was opposed to all the wars in the middle east and to palantir and the Snowden revelations etc. But that doesn't make what China does better in any way. And those millions of Uyghurs they locked up couldn't possibly all be terrorists. That makes it racism and religious persecution. Ps how is Cuba a vassal state of the US? When you speak of a concentration camp I assume you refer to Guantanamo?
    - scotty79 9mo ago
      Whataboutism is when someone tries to wipe the issue from the dialog by steering conversation towards a different issue of the same nature. I mostly acknowledge that China implemented less than stellar ideas. I'm merely suggesting that such things should be evaluated in the context. I don't believe in objective morality so how moral you are must be evaluated in relation to your peers. > And those millions of Uyghurs they locked up couldn't possibly all be terrorists. They were unassimilated population that China believed (while watching the west) might breed trouble. This alone makes the comparison with what US is doing right now pretty fair. > That makes it racism and religious persecution. Chinese was locking up all ethnic and religious groups during the pandemic. That might point to an explanation that maybe religion and race is irrelevant. Only safety matters. If westerners did that it would be racism and religious persecution. But in a culture that gives a very little thought to both race and religion saying that might be just western projection. > Ps how is Cuba a vassal state of the US? When you speak of a concentration camp I assume you refer to Guantanamo? No. I'm talking about Salvador and a place built with US money where people that ICE has no idea where to send back are kept indefinitely. But I don't want to discuss that, to avoid whataboutism. I'm just telling it to provide background for evaluation how terrible were the things that China did.
throwawayqqq11 9mo ago
Iam sceptical whether china is more evil than the current and historic US. Both countries have commited atrocities but the US was way more involved "for their interests overseas". Maybe the western distrust towards china will make it a different power equilibrium.
Buxato 9mo ago
If you think that's the worst offence then you should check the recent and past news more often.
- scotty79 9mo ago
  What was the most grusome Chinese offence you learned about form the news recently?
card_zero 9mo ago
Stop getting Chinese territory under your fishing boats! Leave immediately for correct and healthy harmony! Fires water cannon
- RobotToaster 9mo ago
  As opposed to America who uses cruise missiles on fishing boats in a different continent?
RobotToaster 9mo ago
Maoist protracted people's war has traditionally relied on being less of an asshole to the peasants than the enemy.

mschuster91 9mo ago

China wants but China won't. They lack the military capability of force projection that is the basis of the US dollar dominance, their currency cannot be used as a reserve/trading currency due to capital transfer controls (that have no sign of ever going away because otherwise everyone who has money in China will move it immediately out of the reach of the CCP), foreign investors have gotten very skeptical over the years regarding IP theft on one side and supply chain law issues (e.g. underage labor, 996 and modern slavery, environmental concerns) on the other, and on top of that China is getting rocked hard by the inevitable consequences of the one-child policy that is driving up labor costs, further reducing the attractivity for foreign investors.

bborud 9mo ago
China doesn’t need to project force. Economics might is sufficient. Yes, they want Taiwan, but that’s a silly national pride thing. It would not really benefit them to take it by force.
- mschuster91 9mo ago
  > Yes, they want Taiwan, but that’s a silly national pride thing. It would not really benefit them to take it by force. We thought the same about Putin, and yet he went and invaded Ukraine. We thought the same about Trump, and yet he went and abducted the president of a sovereign country. Never underestimate nationalist BS or outright mental deficiency.
  - bborud 9mo ago
    The difference is desperation. Putin was facing instability and was afraid of ending up like Khadafi. He needed a war. Xi is not facing those challenges. He wants Taiwan, but the Chinese play long games so he can wait.
    - mschuster91 9mo ago
      > Xi is not facing those challenges. He is facing other challenges, a lot of chickens are coming home to roost - chiefly the demographic collapse, the inevitable result of the one-child policy, but also the rise of wages leading other countries to be the outsourcing target, decades of selling out nature / the environment, a crashing real estate sector, brain drain...