5 ms·

It’s got to the point where I turn off my WiFi now to do performance-sensitive work, because of the boost that killing all this background rubbish gives. Anythi

It’s got to the point where I turn off my WiFi now to do performance-sensitive work, because of the boost that killing all this background rubbish gives. Anything I need online I can just offload to my phone while my computer is offline.

ChrisMarshallNY 9mo ago
The problem with doing that, is that the standard TCP timeout is 60 seconds. All of a sudden, you are beset with 60-second hangs.
- xnorswap 9mo ago
  You just gave me flashbacks of mistyping a folder share name on windows and having the whole PC lock up for a minute or two.
- embedding-shape 9mo ago
  If the computer doesn't have any online network connection, shouldn't it outright error? I understand that the timeout sucks when your network is not connected to the internet but still alive, then that's an issue, but if there is no connection at all, why would the timeouts matter?
  - moduspol 9mo ago
    It wouldn't be able to open a TCP connection without knowing what IP address / interface to use. You're right--it should outright error. You should only see timeouts like that if you were dropping the packets from some middleware or middlebox, but your client still had a valid IP address.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- lapcat 9mo ago
  > All of a sudden, you are beset with 60-second hangs. No, that's not how it works. Frankly, I'm astonished to see this claim here.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 9mo ago
    Depends. I have a couple of apps on my computer that do exactly that. I am looking forward to learning how it does work...
    - lapcat 9mo ago
      > I am looking forward to learning how it does work... It's basic sockets. If you call connect() when the internet is disabled, the errno is ENETUNREACH. The higher-level API are built on sockets. If any apps are misbehaving, they're simply badly coded.
      - ChrisMarshallNY 9mo ago
        > It's basic sockets. Yup. I've done a bit of that stuff, in my time. > If any apps are misbehaving, they're simply badly coded. Plenty of that stuff, going around. Might want to ease back on the "instant insult" thing. Not a good look.
        lapcat 9mo ago
        > Yup. I've done a bit of that stuff, in my time. So are you willing to admit now that "the standard TCP timeout" was a misdiagnosis of your problem? You appeared to be projecting a personal problem with some unnamed badly coded apps onto everyone, as if it were inevitable, but the original commenter who said they turned off WiFi obviously does not experience this problem, and neither do I for that matter.
        ChrisMarshallNY 9mo ago
        [flagged]
- ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago
  Just a wrap-up. It was a badly-written comment. I meant some apps (and background tasks) on my computer hang. Most deal with it, but a surprising number don’t. I gave up on sniffing with Terminal and other tools, trying to figure out which ones. I have a number of dev tools installed on my computer, and a lot of those have a … casual … approach to quality. I have no issue admitting fault (I do it way too often), but I don’t really dig rewarding boorish behavior, so I just figured I’d leave it alone.

ChrisMarshallNY 9mo ago

The problem with doing that, is that the standard TCP timeout is 60 seconds. All of a sudden, you are beset with 60-second hangs.

xnorswap 9mo ago
You just gave me flashbacks of mistyping a folder share name on windows and having the whole PC lock up for a minute or two.
embedding-shape 9mo ago
If the computer doesn't have any online network connection, shouldn't it outright error? I understand that the timeout sucks when your network is not connected to the internet but still alive, then that's an issue, but if there is no connection at all, why would the timeouts matter?
- moduspol 9mo ago
  It wouldn't be able to open a TCP connection without knowing what IP address / interface to use. You're right--it should outright error. You should only see timeouts like that if you were dropping the packets from some middleware or middlebox, but your client still had a valid IP address.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
lapcat 9mo ago
> All of a sudden, you are beset with 60-second hangs. No, that's not how it works. Frankly, I'm astonished to see this claim here.
- ChrisMarshallNY 9mo ago
  Depends. I have a couple of apps on my computer that do exactly that. I am looking forward to learning how it does work...
  - lapcat 9mo ago
    > I am looking forward to learning how it does work... It's basic sockets. If you call connect() when the internet is disabled, the errno is ENETUNREACH. The higher-level API are built on sockets. If any apps are misbehaving, they're simply badly coded.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 9mo ago
      > It's basic sockets. Yup. I've done a bit of that stuff, in my time. > If any apps are misbehaving, they're simply badly coded. Plenty of that stuff, going around. Might want to ease back on the "instant insult" thing. Not a good look.
      - lapcat 9mo ago
        > Yup. I've done a bit of that stuff, in my time. So are you willing to admit now that "the standard TCP timeout" was a misdiagnosis of your problem? You appeared to be projecting a personal problem with some unnamed badly coded apps onto everyone, as if it were inevitable, but the original commenter who said they turned off WiFi obviously does not experience this problem, and neither do I for that matter.
        ChrisMarshallNY 9mo ago
        [flagged]
ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago
Just a wrap-up. It was a badly-written comment. I meant some apps (and background tasks) on my computer hang. Most deal with it, but a surprising number don’t. I gave up on sniffing with Terminal and other tools, trying to figure out which ones. I have a number of dev tools installed on my computer, and a lot of those have a … casual … approach to quality. I have no issue admitting fault (I do it way too often), but I don’t really dig rewarding boorish behavior, so I just figured I’d leave it alone.