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> I don't consider it fine, but I don't think this means we're also not allies. I understand the reaction. I largely disagree with our actions. The US would sti

by piva00 9mo ago

> I don't consider it fine, but I don't think this means we're also not allies. I understand the reaction. I largely disagree with our actions. The US would still come to the defense of France, Germany, UK, &c. We are still in NATO, we still participate in and lead military exercises, we still have troops stationed throughout NATO-aligned countries, and more. As someone living in Europe: I don't trust the USA would, that's the reality now, there were ties spanning decades which I thought would take a lot more effort from any US administration to break but alas, it's been broken, I simply do not trust any of that right now. The US definitely wouldn't come to the defence of the Baltics which would be the frontline of any start of Russian aggression towards the EU. Sorry to say but this is not the reality anymore. > Oh and sprinkle in some hacking, and disinformation campaigns to fuel European far-right groups too. The US admin is cozying up with many far-right groups in Europe as well, given that China hasn't directly threatened to annex any territory from European countries we can see how between US vs China, China is becoming the more reliable partner. It's a quantifiable measure, they are predictable, it's easier to deal with. > If you don't think China is a problem or whatever, you can't blame the United States for pulling forces and support from Europe when the US feels threatened by China. Russia isn't threatening us, not going to attack us, so maybe we should just do some good trade deals with Russia and unlock resources. This is exactly how Europe is behaving with respect to China. How exactly is China threatening the USA? You all got into this China pivot because of how economically powerful China has become, it's just Red Scare 2.0 but against a hyper-capitalist country with a veneer of "communism" from the party's name.\ Because Russia is directly invading a country in our continent, directly threatening European countries with nukes, tell me more on how the USA is threatened by China. Maybe you should do good deals with Russia if that's how you think, you're displaying exactly the reason why we in Europe don't really feel keen on dealing with the USA anymore.

ericmay 9mo ago
> As someone living in Europe: I don't trust the USA would, that's the reality now, there were ties spanning decades which I thought would take a lot more effort from any US administration to break but alas, it's been broken, I simply do not trust any of that right now. The US definitely wouldn't come to the defence of the Baltics which would be the frontline of any start of Russian aggression towards the EU. Feel free to read more about literal US troops deployed on the frontline in the Baltics, and in Eastern Europe: https://www.cfr.org/articles/where-are-us-forces-deployed-europe https://www.cfr.org/articles/where-are-us-forces-deployed-eu... > Sorry to say but this is not the reality anymore. Factually incorrect. > The US admin is cozying up with many far-right groups in Europe as well, given that China hasn't directly threatened to annex any territory from European countries we can see how between US vs China, China is becoming the more reliable partner. It's a quantifiable measure, they are predictable, it's easier to deal with. Ok so if the US is cozying up with many far-right groups in Europe as well, that means the US and China are operating the same. Ok that's neutral. The US has threatened to annex Greenland, which, let's be honest was most likely an extremely poor, stupid, and bombastic negotiating tactic as the island is effectively undefended and if the EU is going to own it they need to increase defense spending there to levels that are satisfactory to the United States. And while I disagree completely with the Trump admin's approach, getting really angry about that one thing, and then all of sudden pretending that is somehow worse than the Chinese helping Russia physically attack Ukraine is beyond bizarre to me. But maybe that's kind of the point - EU doesn't actually care much about Ukraine. > How exactly is China threatening the USA? Are you really not aware of the geopolitical confrontation between China and the United States, or are you being facetious? > Maybe you should do good deals with Russia if that's how you think, you're displaying exactly the reason why we in Europe don't really feel keen on dealing with the USA anymore. You're displaying the exact reason why folks in the USA have stopped caring about Europe.
- piva00 9mo ago
  > Feel free to read more about literal US troops deployed on the frontline in the Baltics, and in Eastern Europe I'm very aware, and again: what's lost is the trust that this means anything right now. Your government is fickle and spineless, it doesn't bode well to rely on it, it has cozied up with Putin through Trump so why should I believe those troops will actually be activated? Why, exactly? Trust is lost, that's a fact. > Ok so if the US is cozying up with many far-right groups in Europe as well, that means the US and China are operating the same. Ok that's neutral. I never said that, don't put words in my mouth, just this week it's probably the 3rd or 4th time an American here on HN tries to do that, it's quite tiresome. I did say that the USA is not better in that term since it's doing the same so your argument is nil. If China is bad for doing that then the USA (which includes you) as it is right now has no moral stand to use that as argument. > The US has threatened to annex Greenland, which, let's be honest was most likely an extremely poor, stupid, and bombastic negotiating tactic as the island is effectively undefended and if the EU is going to own it they need to increase defense spending there to levels that are satisfactory to the United States. We don't care if it was a negotiation tactic, the end result is the same: you've threatened us, there's no friendship or alliance that survives that unscathed. It was stupid, don't you think these actions have political implications? Growing dissatisfaction with the USA means electing people who will continue the trend of decoupling, this "tactic" has consequences, and the consequence is to not be so deep into the USA's influence, you've proven you don't care about that. > And while I disagree completely with the Trump admin's approach, getting really angry about that one thing, and then all of sudden pretending that is somehow worse than the Chinese helping Russia physically attack Ukraine is beyond bizarre to me. But maybe that's kind of the point - EU doesn't actually care much about Ukraine. The EU has spent more money to supply Ukraine than the USA, Europe has been taking over the vacuum the USA is leaving after electing Trump because the USA does not care a single yota about Ukraine, on the contrary: your administration is led by someone who continuously praise Putin, and is very likely heavily influenced by Putin and the Russian government. Don't come with "no u" onto this. You need to accept the USA as we knew before is over, there's no coming back from MAGA-adjacent stuff for generations, the seeds have been sown, your society is MAGA, like it or not. We outside the USA need to be prepared for this new world, and detaching from your sick society is one of the required steps. Again, China is, at the very least, predictable. You aren't, go fix your house if you want that impression to be changed.

by piva00 9mo ago

ericmay 9mo ago

> As someone living in Europe: I don't trust the USA would, that's the reality now, there were ties spanning decades which I thought would take a lot more effort from any US administration to break but alas, it's been broken, I simply do not trust any of that right now. The US definitely wouldn't come to the defence of the Baltics which would be the frontline of any start of Russian aggression towards the EU. Feel free to read more about literal US troops deployed on the frontline in the Baltics, and in Eastern Europe: https://www.cfr.org/articles/where-are-us-forces-deployed-europe https://www.cfr.org/articles/where-are-us-forces-deployed-eu... > Sorry to say but this is not the reality anymore. Factually incorrect. > The US admin is cozying up with many far-right groups in Europe as well, given that China hasn't directly threatened to annex any territory from European countries we can see how between US vs China, China is becoming the more reliable partner. It's a quantifiable measure, they are predictable, it's easier to deal with. Ok so if the US is cozying up with many far-right groups in Europe as well, that means the US and China are operating the same. Ok that's neutral. The US has threatened to annex Greenland, which, let's be honest was most likely an extremely poor, stupid, and bombastic negotiating tactic as the island is effectively undefended and if the EU is going to own it they need to increase defense spending there to levels that are satisfactory to the United States. And while I disagree completely with the Trump admin's approach, getting really angry about that one thing, and then all of sudden pretending that is somehow worse than the Chinese helping Russia physically attack Ukraine is beyond bizarre to me. But maybe that's kind of the point - EU doesn't actually care much about Ukraine. > How exactly is China threatening the USA? Are you really not aware of the geopolitical confrontation between China and the United States, or are you being facetious? > Maybe you should do good deals with Russia if that's how you think, you're displaying exactly the reason why we in Europe don't really feel keen on dealing with the USA anymore. You're displaying the exact reason why folks in the USA have stopped caring about Europe.

piva00 9mo ago
> Feel free to read more about literal US troops deployed on the frontline in the Baltics, and in Eastern Europe I'm very aware, and again: what's lost is the trust that this means anything right now. Your government is fickle and spineless, it doesn't bode well to rely on it, it has cozied up with Putin through Trump so why should I believe those troops will actually be activated? Why, exactly? Trust is lost, that's a fact. > Ok so if the US is cozying up with many far-right groups in Europe as well, that means the US and China are operating the same. Ok that's neutral. I never said that, don't put words in my mouth, just this week it's probably the 3rd or 4th time an American here on HN tries to do that, it's quite tiresome. I did say that the USA is not better in that term since it's doing the same so your argument is nil. If China is bad for doing that then the USA (which includes you) as it is right now has no moral stand to use that as argument. > The US has threatened to annex Greenland, which, let's be honest was most likely an extremely poor, stupid, and bombastic negotiating tactic as the island is effectively undefended and if the EU is going to own it they need to increase defense spending there to levels that are satisfactory to the United States. We don't care if it was a negotiation tactic, the end result is the same: you've threatened us, there's no friendship or alliance that survives that unscathed. It was stupid, don't you think these actions have political implications? Growing dissatisfaction with the USA means electing people who will continue the trend of decoupling, this "tactic" has consequences, and the consequence is to not be so deep into the USA's influence, you've proven you don't care about that. > And while I disagree completely with the Trump admin's approach, getting really angry about that one thing, and then all of sudden pretending that is somehow worse than the Chinese helping Russia physically attack Ukraine is beyond bizarre to me. But maybe that's kind of the point - EU doesn't actually care much about Ukraine. The EU has spent more money to supply Ukraine than the USA, Europe has been taking over the vacuum the USA is leaving after electing Trump because the USA does not care a single yota about Ukraine, on the contrary: your administration is led by someone who continuously praise Putin, and is very likely heavily influenced by Putin and the Russian government. Don't come with "no u" onto this. You need to accept the USA as we knew before is over, there's no coming back from MAGA-adjacent stuff for generations, the seeds have been sown, your society is MAGA, like it or not. We outside the USA need to be prepared for this new world, and detaching from your sick society is one of the required steps. Again, China is, at the very least, predictable. You aren't, go fix your house if you want that impression to be changed.