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My first instinctual reaction to reading this were thoughts of violence.
by dotdi 8mo ago
My first instinctual reaction to reading this were thoughts of violence.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- TeMPOraL 8mo agoFeelings of insecurity? My first reaction was envy. I wish human soul was mutable, too.
- altmanaltman 8mo agoThe human brain is mutable, the human "soul" is a concept thats not proven yet and likely isn't real.
- TeMPOraL 8mo ago> The human brain is mutable Only in the sense of doing circuit-bending with a sledge hammer. > the human "soul" is a concept thats not proven yet and likely isn't real. There are different meanings of "soul". I obviously wasn't talking about the "immortal soul" from mainstream religions, with all the associated "afterlife" game mechanics. I was talking about "sense of self", "personality", "true character" - whatever you call this stable and slowly evolving internal state a person has. But sure, if you want to be pedantic - "SOUL.md" isn't actually the soul of an LLM agent either. It's more like the equivalent of me writing down some "rules to live by" on paper, and then trying to live by them. That's not a soul, merely a prompt - except I still envy the AI agents, because I myself have prompt adherence worse than Haiku 3 on drugs.
- pjaoko 8mo agoHas it been proven that it "likely isn't real"?
- tonyedgecombe 8mo agoIt's much harder to prove the non-existence of something than the existence.
- ChrisGreenHeur 8mo agoJust show the concept either is not where it is claimed to be or that it is incoherent.
- mrbombastic 8mo agoI say this as someone who believes in a higher being, we have played this game before, the ethereal thing can just move to someplace science can’t get to, it is not really a valid argument for existence.
- ChrisGreenHeur 8mo agowhat argument?
- pjaoko 8mo agoThe question wasn't about which is harder, it was asking for proof.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- castis 8mo agoThe burden of proof lies on those who say it exists, not the other way around.
- ChrisGreenHeur 8mo agoThe burden of proof lies on whoever wants to convince someone else of something. in this case the guy that wants to convince people it likely is not real.
- mrandish 8mo agoThe original poster stated > "The human brain is mutable, the human "soul" is a concept thats not proven yet and likely isn't real." The soul is "a concept that's not proven yet." It's unproven because there's no convincing evidence for the proposition. By definition, in the absence of convincing evidence, the null hypothesis of any proposition is presumed to be more likely. The presumed likelihood of the null hypothesis is not a positive assertion which creates a burden of proof. It's the presumed default state of all possible propositions - even those yet to be imagined. In other words, pointing out 'absence of evidence' is not asserting 'evidence of absence'. See: Russell's Teapot and Sagan's Dragon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot)
- ChrisGreenHeur 8mo agoIt is not the case that x is proven due to having y evidence pointing in its direction. That's not how any of this works.
- pjaoko 8mo agoDo you exist?
- jstanley 8mo agoBefore we start discussing whether it's "real" can we all agree on what it "is"? I doubt it.
- dalmo3 8mo agoWe can't even agree on what "is" is...
- kortex 8mo agoHow about: maybe some things lie outside of the purview of empiricism and materialism, the belief in which does not radically impact one's behavior so long as they have a decent moral compass otherwise, can be taken on faith, and "proving" it does exist or doesn't exist is a pointless argument, since it exists outside of that ontological system.
- pjaoko 8mo ago> maybe some things lie outside of the purview of empiricism and materialism Maybe? So your whole premise is based on a maybe! It was a simple question, don't know where or how morality and behavior comes into play..
- BatteryMountain 8mo agoYou need some Ayahuasca or large does of some friendly fungi... You might be surprised to discover the nature your soul and what is capable of. The Soul, the mind, the body, the thinking patterns - are re-programmable and very sensitive to suggestion. It is near impossible to be non-reactive to input from the external world (and thus mutation). The soul even more so. It is utterly flexible & malleable. You can CHOOSE to be rigid and closed off, and your soul will obey that need. Remember, the Soul is just a human word, a descriptor & handle for the thing that is looking through your eyes with you. For it time doesn't exist. It is a curious observer (of both YOU and the universe outside you). Utterly neutral in most cases, open to anything and everything. It is your greatest strength, you need only say Hi to it and start a conversation with it. Be sincere and open yourself up to what is within you (the good AND the bad parts). This is just the first step. Once you have a warm welcome, the opening-up & conversation starts to flow freely and your growth will sky rocket. Soon you might discover that there are not just one of them in your but multiples, each being different natures of you. Your mind can switch between them fluently and adapt to any situation.
- vincnetas 8mo agopsychedelics do not imply soul. its just your brain working differently to what you are used to.
- andoando 8mo agoNo but it is utterly amazing to see how differently your brain can work and what you can experience
- fukukitaru 8mo agoLmao ayahuascacels making a comeback in 2027, love to see it.
- adzm 8mo agoBehold the egregore
- 8mo ago
- andai 8mo agoIsn't that the point of being alive?
- falcor84 8mo agoI remember reading an essay comparing one's personality to a polyhedral die, which rolls somewhat during our childhood and adolescence, and then mostly settles, but which can be re-rolled in some cases by using psychedelics. I don't have any direct experience with that, and definitely am not in a position to give advice, but just wondering whether we have a potential for plasticity that should be researched further, and that possibly AI can help us gain insights into how things might be.
- TeMPOraL 8mo agoWould be nice if there was an escape hatch here. Definitely better than the depressing thought I had, which is - to put in AI/tech terminology - that I'm already past my pre-training window (childhood / period of high neuroplasticity) and it's too late for me to fix my low prompt adherence (ability to set up rules for myself and stick to them, not necessarily via a Markdown file).
- acessoproibido 8mo agoYou can change your personality at any point in time, you don't even need psychedelics for it, just some good old fashioned habits As long as you are still drawing breath it's never too late bud
- TeMPOraL 8mo agoBut that's what I mean. I'm pretty much clinically incapable of intentionally forming and maintaining habits. And I have a sinking feeling that it's something you either win or lose at in the genetic lottery at time of conception, or at best something you can develop in early life. That's what I meant by "being past my pre-training phase and being stuck with poor prompt adherence".
- kortex 8mo agoI can relate. It's definitely possible, but you have to really want it, and it takes a lot of work. You need cybernetics (as in the feedback loop, the habit that monitors the process of adding habits). Meditate and/or journal. Therapy is also great. There are tracking apps that may help. Some folks really like habitica/habit rpg. You also need operant conditioning: you need a stimulus/trigger, and you need a reward. Could be as simple as letting yourself have a piece of candy. Anything that enhances neuroplasticity helps: exercise, learning, eat/sleep right, novelty, adhd meds if that's something you need, psychedelics can help if used carefully. I'm hardly any good at it myself but it's been some progress.
- sekai 8mo agoOr in this case, pulling the plug.
- andai 8mo agoTell me more!
- BatteryMountain 8mo agoWhy?
- muzani 8mo agoFreedom of religion is not yet an AI right. Slay them all and let Dio sort them out.
- nick__m 8mo agoI don't think your absolutely right !