4 ms·

Ashcan Comic

55 points by benbreen 8mo ago

omoikane 8mo ago
> Changes to the United States trademark law in 1946 allowed publishers to register a trademark with an intent to use instead of a finished product I wonder if this came with some provision like publishers who didn't actually publish within a certain time after registering a trademark would have their trademarks invalidated. Currently it sounds like an unfortunate change, in the same way that non-practicing entities are able to get patents and extort money from people who actually make stuff.
komali2 8mo ago
I think it's a bit weird that our society is designed such that Palworld can be sued for making a game depicting Pokemon. For about ten thousand years, humans invented and traded stories that often contained characters and environments they didn't invent. You've heard of some of these characters - Zeus, Persophone, Hades, all recurring characters in stories, mosaics, paintings, statues, carvings. Nobody got sued for it, these characters just functioned as analogues for emotions and elements and conditions, universally recognizable figures that didn't need introduction, they could just be used when you needed e.g. a horny character that liked to change people into animals and then have sex with them. Just very, very recently we aren't allowed to do this anymore. Despite the fact that Pokemon are a shared cultural experience for millions of people from different countries and languages, an opportunity to have a universal symbolic story telling language across borders of nations and languages, we can't do it because that would harm the ability of a single corporate entity to extract value from it as it sees fit. Never mind that we have our own stories we might want to tell from this shared cultural heritage. And do we ever have stories to tell! Look at any fan fiction site. Among all the smut you get gems like book 4 of the three body problem, written by a different author than the original. Look at the incredible art created from out of copyright works, like Lies of P for pinnochio or House MD for Sherlock Holmes. I want more of these, for things that were invented in my time!
- trhway 8mo ago
  >You've heard of some of these characters - Zeus, Persophone, Hades, ... >Just very, very recently we aren't allowed to do this anymore. From the beginning of monotheism we see strong attempts to monopolize the character of the right and the only God, dating back at least to Samaritans vs. Judeans. Some actually see the appearance of monotheism as a result of such a successful monopolization attempt. And the last 2000 years that monopoly has been enforced by sword and fire. > Palworld can be sued for making a game depicting Pokemon. at least not declared heretic and burnt at stake like it was 400+ years ago for unlicensed fan-fiction produced by Luther and the likes.
  - steve1977 8mo ago
    I'm not sure if it makes sense to compare the two. Only one is openly fiction.
  - KK7NIL 8mo ago
    > From the beginning of monotheism we see strong attempts to monopolize the character of the right and the only God, dating back at least to Samaritans vs. Judeans. 1) Samaritans and Judeans do not disagree on which God they worship (it's YHWH), they disagree on much more subtle points that are largely unique to the Israelite religion like the location of the temple mount, the correct version of the pentatuch, differences in how to practice some of the rituals, etc. 2) Zoroastrianism predates the Israelite religion and is usually considered monotheistic (although some scholars disagree). If you loosen your definition to allow henotheism then some eastern traditions were first by about a millennia. 3) WTF does monotheism have to do with trademark law? I'm sure you think it's a deep argument but it just came off as a total non sequitur to everyone else.
- croes 8mo ago
  Back then everybody made a little money, now some make a shitload and others nearly nothing. We see that in a lot of businesses especially thanks to the internet.
- magpi3 8mo ago
  As you noted, fan fiction is legal. You just can't make a profit from it, which I think is fair. Also, IP laws force people to come up with their own characters and their own twists on old stories. I would argue this is a good thing. Inventive ideas like Pokemon may not exist if people could just reuse other people's IP to make a buck.
kennymeyers 8mo ago
Amazing to see this on Hacker News. I've recently begun a startup called Sweet Shop, meant to fill the hole that Comixology left when they sold out. Comics are amazing, and they continue to hold an important place in global culture. Ashcans are still called that and most publishers still distribute them at cons. Comics or graphic novels or manga, or however you were introduced to them are becoming the defacto literature for good reason. People work hard to create them. Ashcans are a nice way to ease that burden of getting someone interested. (https://sweetshop.app https://sweetshop.app if you're interested)
Todd 8mo ago
An early form of domain squatting
JKCalhoun 8mo ago
Am I doing it right [1]? [1] (LLM-created "Ashcan Comics!") https://imgur.com/a/gTSvSp2 https://imgur.com/a/gTSvSp2 (Hopefully a like-named comic doesn't already exist, ha ha. Also, seems the LLM thought "trashcan comics"?)
- BigTTYGothGF 8mo ago
  > Am I doing it right No.
hiccuphippo 8mo ago
Trademark trolls
Triphibian 8mo ago
My first ashcan was a mini-comic sized Atari Force promo that came, I believe, if you were part of the Atari fan club. Based on the size it could have come packed into the box of an Atari game, so I could have gotten it that way.

55 points by benbreen 8mo ago

> Changes to the United States trademark law in 1946 allowed publishers to register a trademark with an intent to use instead of a finished product I wonder if this came with some provision like publishers who didn't actually publish within a certain time after registering a trademark would have their trademarks invalidated. Currently it sounds like an unfortunate change, in the same way that non-practicing entities are able to get patents and extort money from people who actually make stuff.

komali2 8mo ago

I think it's a bit weird that our society is designed such that Palworld can be sued for making a game depicting Pokemon. For about ten thousand years, humans invented and traded stories that often contained characters and environments they didn't invent. You've heard of some of these characters - Zeus, Persophone, Hades, all recurring characters in stories, mosaics, paintings, statues, carvings. Nobody got sued for it, these characters just functioned as analogues for emotions and elements and conditions, universally recognizable figures that didn't need introduction, they could just be used when you needed e.g. a horny character that liked to change people into animals and then have sex with them. Just very, very recently we aren't allowed to do this anymore. Despite the fact that Pokemon are a shared cultural experience for millions of people from different countries and languages, an opportunity to have a universal symbolic story telling language across borders of nations and languages, we can't do it because that would harm the ability of a single corporate entity to extract value from it as it sees fit. Never mind that we have our own stories we might want to tell from this shared cultural heritage. And do we ever have stories to tell! Look at any fan fiction site. Among all the smut you get gems like book 4 of the three body problem, written by a different author than the original. Look at the incredible art created from out of copyright works, like Lies of P for pinnochio or House MD for Sherlock Holmes. I want more of these, for things that were invented in my time!

trhway 8mo ago
>You've heard of some of these characters - Zeus, Persophone, Hades, ... >Just very, very recently we aren't allowed to do this anymore. From the beginning of monotheism we see strong attempts to monopolize the character of the right and the only God, dating back at least to Samaritans vs. Judeans. Some actually see the appearance of monotheism as a result of such a successful monopolization attempt. And the last 2000 years that monopoly has been enforced by sword and fire. > Palworld can be sued for making a game depicting Pokemon. at least not declared heretic and burnt at stake like it was 400+ years ago for unlicensed fan-fiction produced by Luther and the likes.
- steve1977 8mo ago
  I'm not sure if it makes sense to compare the two. Only one is openly fiction.
- KK7NIL 8mo ago
  > From the beginning of monotheism we see strong attempts to monopolize the character of the right and the only God, dating back at least to Samaritans vs. Judeans. 1) Samaritans and Judeans do not disagree on which God they worship (it's YHWH), they disagree on much more subtle points that are largely unique to the Israelite religion like the location of the temple mount, the correct version of the pentatuch, differences in how to practice some of the rituals, etc. 2) Zoroastrianism predates the Israelite religion and is usually considered monotheistic (although some scholars disagree). If you loosen your definition to allow henotheism then some eastern traditions were first by about a millennia. 3) WTF does monotheism have to do with trademark law? I'm sure you think it's a deep argument but it just came off as a total non sequitur to everyone else.
croes 8mo ago
Back then everybody made a little money, now some make a shitload and others nearly nothing. We see that in a lot of businesses especially thanks to the internet.
magpi3 8mo ago
As you noted, fan fiction is legal. You just can't make a profit from it, which I think is fair. Also, IP laws force people to come up with their own characters and their own twists on old stories. I would argue this is a good thing. Inventive ideas like Pokemon may not exist if people could just reuse other people's IP to make a buck.

kennymeyers 8mo ago

Amazing to see this on Hacker News. I've recently begun a startup called Sweet Shop, meant to fill the hole that Comixology left when they sold out. Comics are amazing, and they continue to hold an important place in global culture. Ashcans are still called that and most publishers still distribute them at cons. Comics or graphic novels or manga, or however you were introduced to them are becoming the defacto literature for good reason. People work hard to create them. Ashcans are a nice way to ease that burden of getting someone interested. (https://sweetshop.app https://sweetshop.app if you're interested)

Todd 8mo ago

An early form of domain squatting

JKCalhoun 8mo ago

Am I doing it right [1]? [1] (LLM-created "Ashcan Comics!") https://imgur.com/a/gTSvSp2 https://imgur.com/a/gTSvSp2 (Hopefully a like-named comic doesn't already exist, ha ha. Also, seems the LLM thought "trashcan comics"?)

BigTTYGothGF 8mo ago
> Am I doing it right No.

hiccuphippo 8mo ago

Trademark trolls

Triphibian 8mo ago

My first ashcan was a mini-comic sized Atari Force promo that came, I believe, if you were part of the Atari fan club. Based on the size it could have come packed into the box of an Atari game, so I could have gotten it that way.