4 ms·

I'm literally considering a career switch from software engineering to electrical engineering and electronics, and naturally going back to school, because the A

by xqb64 8mo ago

I'm literally considering a career switch from software engineering to electrical engineering and electronics, and naturally going back to school, because the AI and the way it's used in writing software has sucked out all the meaning in it for me.

ge96 8mo ago
Yeah I'm the same, I enjoy thinking of a system of things, doing it, not typing a couple of commands and a bunch of code is generated. It's not the rote process but feeling like I worked for it/doing it. Similar argument is "why buy milk" you can get a cow, milk it yourself, kind of thing. Which I see that, some people don't care what the code looks like, does it work.
- ge96 8mo ago
  Tangent: reality perception is funny, like why hike, you could just watch someone else hike... I think jewelry is worthless (waste of money to buy) but others don't that kind of thing.
- michaelhoney 8mo ago
  Any sufficiently interesting project won't be generated with a couple of commands though: you can still think about systems, about the _right_ way to do something. Then you can document your understanding and hand it to Claude Code to do the fiddly bits which you _could_ do, but they're not as interesting. You're already using a higher level language and leaving implementation details to the compiler: this is another step up.
  - ge96 8mo ago
    What about code verbosity and vulnerabilities, I guess make smaller change sets. Still I do like the process of typing things out, vs being like a checker of check boxes, looks good check, looks good check, kind of deal. I don't mean typing as in typing a story but feel that I'm actively building it. What's bad is I'm not 100% into it, I work in this field but I'm also skeptical of it at the same time. I'm not like "hell yeah Agents!" But also I work with them and it's the current hotness for high paying jobs.
InitialLastName 8mo ago
Meaningful or not, that's a lot of work and money for a pay cut, fewer options, and worse job prospects [0]. [0] Most of the new EE Grads I see go into software engineering.
- xqb64 8mo ago
  I mean, it's not like I'm going to forget how to write code any time soon. I'm currently recovering from the n-th tough burnout, and I feel like I need a shift toward something new and meaningful. When it comes to job opportunities, from my perspective, knowing the entire stack (not in the webdev sense, but rather both hardware and software) makes you highly attractive on the market, in both worlds. So, while I genuinely can't predict what I'll end up doing 5 years from now, I do feel like it's time to familiarize myself with the other side of the entire stack.
  - joearchitect 8mo ago
    [dead]
  - joearchitect 8mo ago
    [dead]
- anitil 8mo ago
  That's me! I found I was treated much better in software, the timelines were much more reasonable and your input was valued. When doing firmware, typically everyone's timelines would slip but the delivery date wouldn't which meant your time with a fully functional device (if you even get one at all) would reduce. Half the time you're developing on a half-broken version of the real device
Etheryte 8mo ago
That's one possible way to look at it. The other, perhaps more positive way to look at it, is that similar to autocomplete, AI-assisted tools have made the boring parts less boring and left more space for the interesting bits. I use them every now and then for chores and such which I would put off otherwise, but there is certainly no shortage of interesting problems that they can't tackle. Now I just have more time to focus on those.
- xqb64 8mo ago
  I'll admit that I'd used github copilot while I worked on one of my projects, and I couldn't help it but notice a rather significant cognitive decline whenever I set out to take over and start hammering out the code myself. I just can't allow cognitive declines.
vsgherzi 8mo ago
I'm in the same boat, I'm hoping firmware / embedded might be better in this regard due to the inherit constraints. If not then EE is probably the only other option. Anyone else have thoughts on this? I'm craving a more civil engineering approach to rigor rather than the mess of modern software. Perhaps that means software just isn't for me.
- globular-toast 8mo ago
  I'm definitely wanting to do something with more of a civil engineering approach to rigour. More and more I think software is full of children who don't care and don't know the meaning of responsibility.
  - nextos 8mo ago
    Maybe formal methods have a chance of becoming mainstream now [1]? This would increase the rigor of software engineering and put it on par with civil engineering. Some niches like real-time embedded systems are already pretty much the same. [1] https://martin.kleppmann.com/2025/12/08/ai-formal-verification.html https://martin.kleppmann.com/2025/12/08/ai-formal-verificati...
    - vsgherzi 8mo ago
      I doubt it, I feel like it might improve shops that already care and are already creating with rigor. I don't think it'll raise the bar for the avg shop. However, perhaps that's just be being cynical. By real time embedded is the same do you mean the same in the sense that they are just as poor in quality?
      - nextos 8mo ago
        > [...] the same in the sense that they are just as poor in quality? I mean some real-time software for critical embedded systems has an incredible level of rigor, making heavy use of static analysis, model checking, and theorem proving.
acedTrex 8mo ago
Absolutely the same boat here as well sadly. As I sit here reviewing another PR with // do the thing doThing() dotted everywhere, I am very much over it.
pwdisswordfishs 8mo ago
Generative AI didn't need to come into existence in order for the proliferation of utterly mind-numbing devops slop that already dominated modern development to suck all the fun out of computers that were originally intended to solve problems for humans. That's the difference between the original "free software" community and the "open source" one to me, including its modern incarnation on GitHub: the former produces a collaborative effort to develop a UNIX replacement/alternative and a thriving ecosystem around free software desktop environments with apps intended for humans to do their personal computing. The latter gets you Apache Kafka.

by xqb64 8mo ago

ge96 8mo ago

Yeah I'm the same, I enjoy thinking of a system of things, doing it, not typing a couple of commands and a bunch of code is generated. It's not the rote process but feeling like I worked for it/doing it. Similar argument is "why buy milk" you can get a cow, milk it yourself, kind of thing. Which I see that, some people don't care what the code looks like, does it work.

ge96 8mo ago
Tangent: reality perception is funny, like why hike, you could just watch someone else hike... I think jewelry is worthless (waste of money to buy) but others don't that kind of thing.
michaelhoney 8mo ago
Any sufficiently interesting project won't be generated with a couple of commands though: you can still think about systems, about the _right_ way to do something. Then you can document your understanding and hand it to Claude Code to do the fiddly bits which you _could_ do, but they're not as interesting. You're already using a higher level language and leaving implementation details to the compiler: this is another step up.
- ge96 8mo ago
  What about code verbosity and vulnerabilities, I guess make smaller change sets. Still I do like the process of typing things out, vs being like a checker of check boxes, looks good check, looks good check, kind of deal. I don't mean typing as in typing a story but feel that I'm actively building it. What's bad is I'm not 100% into it, I work in this field but I'm also skeptical of it at the same time. I'm not like "hell yeah Agents!" But also I work with them and it's the current hotness for high paying jobs.

InitialLastName 8mo ago

Meaningful or not, that's a lot of work and money for a pay cut, fewer options, and worse job prospects [0]. [0] Most of the new EE Grads I see go into software engineering.

xqb64 8mo ago
I mean, it's not like I'm going to forget how to write code any time soon. I'm currently recovering from the n-th tough burnout, and I feel like I need a shift toward something new and meaningful. When it comes to job opportunities, from my perspective, knowing the entire stack (not in the webdev sense, but rather both hardware and software) makes you highly attractive on the market, in both worlds. So, while I genuinely can't predict what I'll end up doing 5 years from now, I do feel like it's time to familiarize myself with the other side of the entire stack.
- joearchitect 8mo ago
  [dead]
- joearchitect 8mo ago
  [dead]
anitil 8mo ago
That's me! I found I was treated much better in software, the timelines were much more reasonable and your input was valued. When doing firmware, typically everyone's timelines would slip but the delivery date wouldn't which meant your time with a fully functional device (if you even get one at all) would reduce. Half the time you're developing on a half-broken version of the real device

Etheryte 8mo ago

That's one possible way to look at it. The other, perhaps more positive way to look at it, is that similar to autocomplete, AI-assisted tools have made the boring parts less boring and left more space for the interesting bits. I use them every now and then for chores and such which I would put off otherwise, but there is certainly no shortage of interesting problems that they can't tackle. Now I just have more time to focus on those.

xqb64 8mo ago
I'll admit that I'd used github copilot while I worked on one of my projects, and I couldn't help it but notice a rather significant cognitive decline whenever I set out to take over and start hammering out the code myself. I just can't allow cognitive declines.

vsgherzi 8mo ago

I'm in the same boat, I'm hoping firmware / embedded might be better in this regard due to the inherit constraints. If not then EE is probably the only other option. Anyone else have thoughts on this? I'm craving a more civil engineering approach to rigor rather than the mess of modern software. Perhaps that means software just isn't for me.

globular-toast 8mo ago
I'm definitely wanting to do something with more of a civil engineering approach to rigour. More and more I think software is full of children who don't care and don't know the meaning of responsibility.
- nextos 8mo ago
  Maybe formal methods have a chance of becoming mainstream now [1]? This would increase the rigor of software engineering and put it on par with civil engineering. Some niches like real-time embedded systems are already pretty much the same. [1] https://martin.kleppmann.com/2025/12/08/ai-formal-verification.html https://martin.kleppmann.com/2025/12/08/ai-formal-verificati...
  - vsgherzi 8mo ago
    I doubt it, I feel like it might improve shops that already care and are already creating with rigor. I don't think it'll raise the bar for the avg shop. However, perhaps that's just be being cynical. By real time embedded is the same do you mean the same in the sense that they are just as poor in quality?
    - nextos 8mo ago
      > [...] the same in the sense that they are just as poor in quality? I mean some real-time software for critical embedded systems has an incredible level of rigor, making heavy use of static analysis, model checking, and theorem proving.

acedTrex 8mo ago

Absolutely the same boat here as well sadly. As I sit here reviewing another PR with // do the thing doThing() dotted everywhere, I am very much over it.

pwdisswordfishs 8mo ago

Generative AI didn't need to come into existence in order for the proliferation of utterly mind-numbing devops slop that already dominated modern development to suck all the fun out of computers that were originally intended to solve problems for humans. That's the difference between the original "free software" community and the "open source" one to me, including its modern incarnation on GitHub: the former produces a collaborative effort to develop a UNIX replacement/alternative and a thriving ecosystem around free software desktop environments with apps intended for humans to do their personal computing. The latter gets you Apache Kafka.