4 ms·

Honestly I wouldn't be that shocked if Apple tried demanding a 30% royalty on bank deposits and bills paid using iPhone apps. They've decided the future of thei

Honestly I wouldn't be that shocked if Apple tried demanding a 30% royalty on bank deposits and bills paid using iPhone apps. They've decided the future of their company depends on being huge assholes about it.

mcintyre1994 9mo ago
I would be surprised by that because iPhone users would notice that. I think the App Store model relies on their fee being invisible to consumers, and the increased price you’re paying not being linked to them. AFAIK apps aren’t allowed to explain that they charge more if you subscribe on iPhone to users either, or why they do so.
- dr-detroit 9mo ago
  [dead]
- wlesieutre 9mo ago
  True, hard for bank deposits where the user sees both ends of the transaction. For bill payments though, they'd just insist on taking 30% of your electric bill payment and if the electric company's margins aren't high enough to absorb that then "Haha that sounds like a you problem" - Tim Cook, probably
- odo1242 9mo ago
  Apps are allowed to link to web services to offer payment as an alternative to IAPs and offer a discount for doing so, thanks to Apple v Epic.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    Can they, or will they be delisted if they do that?
    - bjt 9mo ago
      From the Patreon FAQ: > Can I opt out of the App Store Fee? > For U.S. fans, there’s still a way to avoid Apple’s fee. When signing up in the iOS app, they can choose web checkout instead of Apple’s in-app purchase system. Apple’s rules require that any paid content shown in the iOS app is also available to purchase through Apple’s in-app system. https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/28801582599181-iOS-In-app-Purchases-and-Migrating-to-Subscription-Billing-FAQ https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/28801582599181...
  - dlubarov 9mo ago
    While you're correct, it's worth noting that this only happened because the judge in the Epic lawsuit ordered an injunction forcing Apple to allow it. Apple then "maliciously complied", allowing it while demanding a 27% fee on any web-based payments, which was found to be a violation of the injunction. https://technologylaw.fkks.com/post/102ka4o/apple-violated-u-s-court-order-ending-apples-27-commission-on-external-purcha https://technologylaw.fkks.com/post/102ka4o/apple-violated-u...
jorvi 9mo ago
Something interesting is that Apple and Google Pay charge a tiny commission (don't have the number at hand). Which banks didn't like, so at least on Android they created their own NFC payment stacks for a while. Only to then discover that maintaining such a stack cost them more per year than the commission.
- fauigerzigerk 9mo ago
  I think Google Pay does not charge a fee.
- vel0city 9mo ago
  Ah yes, back in the Isis days. What terrible luck in the naming department on that one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softcard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softcard
- hermanzegerman 9mo ago
  My German Bank still maintains their own pay stack. It's also nice that I don't have to share my payment information or commission with another parasite
burgreblast 9mo ago
When you use Apple Pay, Apple collects ~0.15% (15 bps) from the issuing banks for credit. $1B in transaction volume = $1.5M In 2022 the total volume was estimated at $6T * .15% = $9B. Real number would be maybe half due to lower fees on debit, but it's hugely profitable for Apple, and carries zero risk.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  They'd much rather have 30%.
- mox1 9mo ago
  I think this is a very strong and simple argument to use with regulators, politicians etc. When I put my credit card into Apples ecosystem they take a 0.15% cut of the transaction and appear to be very happy with the results. When I put my application into the ecosystem they take 30%.. You can then break down why this is, but boy is that an interesting contrast.

mcintyre1994 9mo ago

I would be surprised by that because iPhone users would notice that. I think the App Store model relies on their fee being invisible to consumers, and the increased price you’re paying not being linked to them. AFAIK apps aren’t allowed to explain that they charge more if you subscribe on iPhone to users either, or why they do so.

dr-detroit 9mo ago
[dead]
wlesieutre 9mo ago
True, hard for bank deposits where the user sees both ends of the transaction. For bill payments though, they'd just insist on taking 30% of your electric bill payment and if the electric company's margins aren't high enough to absorb that then "Haha that sounds like a you problem" - Tim Cook, probably
odo1242 9mo ago
Apps are allowed to link to web services to offer payment as an alternative to IAPs and offer a discount for doing so, thanks to Apple v Epic.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Can they, or will they be delisted if they do that?
  - bjt 9mo ago
    From the Patreon FAQ: > Can I opt out of the App Store Fee? > For U.S. fans, there’s still a way to avoid Apple’s fee. When signing up in the iOS app, they can choose web checkout instead of Apple’s in-app purchase system. Apple’s rules require that any paid content shown in the iOS app is also available to purchase through Apple’s in-app system. https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/28801582599181-iOS-In-app-Purchases-and-Migrating-to-Subscription-Billing-FAQ https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/28801582599181...
- dlubarov 9mo ago
  While you're correct, it's worth noting that this only happened because the judge in the Epic lawsuit ordered an injunction forcing Apple to allow it. Apple then "maliciously complied", allowing it while demanding a 27% fee on any web-based payments, which was found to be a violation of the injunction. https://technologylaw.fkks.com/post/102ka4o/apple-violated-u-s-court-order-ending-apples-27-commission-on-external-purcha https://technologylaw.fkks.com/post/102ka4o/apple-violated-u...

jorvi 9mo ago

Something interesting is that Apple and Google Pay charge a tiny commission (don't have the number at hand). Which banks didn't like, so at least on Android they created their own NFC payment stacks for a while. Only to then discover that maintaining such a stack cost them more per year than the commission.

fauigerzigerk 9mo ago
I think Google Pay does not charge a fee.
vel0city 9mo ago
Ah yes, back in the Isis days. What terrible luck in the naming department on that one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softcard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softcard
hermanzegerman 9mo ago
My German Bank still maintains their own pay stack. It's also nice that I don't have to share my payment information or commission with another parasite

burgreblast 9mo ago

When you use Apple Pay, Apple collects ~0.15% (15 bps) from the issuing banks for credit. $1B in transaction volume = $1.5M In 2022 the total volume was estimated at $6T * .15% = $9B. Real number would be maybe half due to lower fees on debit, but it's hugely profitable for Apple, and carries zero risk.

direwolf20 9mo ago
They'd much rather have 30%.
mox1 9mo ago
I think this is a very strong and simple argument to use with regulators, politicians etc. When I put my credit card into Apples ecosystem they take a 0.15% cut of the transaction and appear to be very happy with the results. When I put my application into the ecosystem they take 30%.. You can then break down why this is, but boy is that an interesting contrast.