10 ms·

> He wants to sell millions of cheaper cars, not thousands of cars for wealthy people. Why hasn't the cheap car been designed yet then?

laughing_man 9mo ago
The Model 3 is pretty cheap for an EV. The average car in the US is over $50k now, so it's competitive on price.
- ben_w 9mo ago
  If $50k is competitive for you, that should be a sign something's gone wrong. In Europe we can get new cars for less than half that price, both for domestic production and also post-tariffs on Chinese imports.
  - Ray20 9mo ago
    > If $50k is competitive for you, that should be a sign something's gone wrong. Or, on the contrary, a sign that something went right. If Europeans weren't drowning in poverty, they would also buy more expensive cars.
    - ben_w 9mo ago
      > Europeans weren't drowning in poverty How come the US has a higher rate of struggling with groceries (12.2% US vs 8.5% EU), healthcare (44% US vs. 18.6% for costs) EU, education costs, etc.? > they would also buy more expensive cars. Price != quality. European cars have better safety standards, as well as being cheaper to own and run. American cars… the vibe I got from them on trips was the expectation for them to serve as an additional air-conditioned entertainment room that just happened to be on wheels, whereas the European ones are mostly a mode of transport unless you're specifically into luxury brands.
      - Ray20 9mo ago
        > How come the US has a higher rate of struggling with groceries (12.2% US vs 8.5% EU), healthcare (44% US vs. 18.6% for costs) EU, education costs, etc.? Reliability of statistical data. The more totalitarian a state is, the more out of touch with reality it can be in its statistics. If we look at the statistics provided by North Korea, they have zero on all the points mentioned. Europe isn't there yet, but it's moving at full speed. Their cars even safer and cheaper to own and run than European ones.
        ben_w 9mo ago
        > The more totalitarian a state is, the more out of touch with reality it can be in its statistics. That's more of an American problem than an EU one at the moment. We're not the ones shooting unarmed protesters in the head ten times after removing their legally owned gun, nor faking arrest photos, etc. Even before that, our leaders have not* called for the death penalty to be used against politicians reminding troops of their existing obligations to not follow illegal orders. Even before that, the US government shutdown at end of last year means some economic data was never collected at all. Even before that, DOGE having Musk at the helm had obvious conflicts of interest with regards to e.g. ongoing investigations against Tesla. * to my knowledge, but TBH wouldn't be surprised if Orban has, but also Hungary is to the EU as, IDK Wyoming perhaps, is to the USA.
        AlexandrB 9mo ago
        > We're not the ones shooting unarmed protesters in the head ten times after removing their legally owned gun, nor faking arrest photos, etc. To be fair, can you even "open carry" a firearm anywhere in Europe? Isn't the UK trying to ban pointy kitchen knives[1]? [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/crime/general/uk-considering-pointed-knife-ban-in-desperate-attempt-to-fight-terrorism/ar-AA1yBL6T https://www.msn.com/en-us/crime/general/uk-considering-point...
        littlestymaar 9mo ago
        With the appropriate permit, yes. Which is also the case in Minnesota. (The permit requirements differ a lot between countries, but that an implementation detail, you should not be killed while respecting the law)
    - lisdexan 9mo ago
      Just be rich (in debt) like Americans seems like a bad plan for a global brand. Poorer countries outside NA and the EU buy stuff too, y'know.
  - laughing_man 9mo ago
    If you're implying the US car market is hamstrung by manufacturer collusion, stupid regulations, and a legal environment that caters to dealers at the expense of customers, then... I agree.

laughing_man 9mo ago

The Model 3 is pretty cheap for an EV. The average car in the US is over $50k now, so it's competitive on price.

ben_w 9mo ago
If $50k is competitive for you, that should be a sign something's gone wrong. In Europe we can get new cars for less than half that price, both for domestic production and also post-tariffs on Chinese imports.
- Ray20 9mo ago
  > If $50k is competitive for you, that should be a sign something's gone wrong. Or, on the contrary, a sign that something went right. If Europeans weren't drowning in poverty, they would also buy more expensive cars.
  - ben_w 9mo ago
    > Europeans weren't drowning in poverty How come the US has a higher rate of struggling with groceries (12.2% US vs 8.5% EU), healthcare (44% US vs. 18.6% for costs) EU, education costs, etc.? > they would also buy more expensive cars. Price != quality. European cars have better safety standards, as well as being cheaper to own and run. American cars… the vibe I got from them on trips was the expectation for them to serve as an additional air-conditioned entertainment room that just happened to be on wheels, whereas the European ones are mostly a mode of transport unless you're specifically into luxury brands.
    - Ray20 9mo ago
      > How come the US has a higher rate of struggling with groceries (12.2% US vs 8.5% EU), healthcare (44% US vs. 18.6% for costs) EU, education costs, etc.? Reliability of statistical data. The more totalitarian a state is, the more out of touch with reality it can be in its statistics. If we look at the statistics provided by North Korea, they have zero on all the points mentioned. Europe isn't there yet, but it's moving at full speed. Their cars even safer and cheaper to own and run than European ones.
      - ben_w 9mo ago
        > The more totalitarian a state is, the more out of touch with reality it can be in its statistics. That's more of an American problem than an EU one at the moment. We're not the ones shooting unarmed protesters in the head ten times after removing their legally owned gun, nor faking arrest photos, etc. Even before that, our leaders have not* called for the death penalty to be used against politicians reminding troops of their existing obligations to not follow illegal orders. Even before that, the US government shutdown at end of last year means some economic data was never collected at all. Even before that, DOGE having Musk at the helm had obvious conflicts of interest with regards to e.g. ongoing investigations against Tesla. * to my knowledge, but TBH wouldn't be surprised if Orban has, but also Hungary is to the EU as, IDK Wyoming perhaps, is to the USA.
        AlexandrB 9mo ago
        > We're not the ones shooting unarmed protesters in the head ten times after removing their legally owned gun, nor faking arrest photos, etc. To be fair, can you even "open carry" a firearm anywhere in Europe? Isn't the UK trying to ban pointy kitchen knives[1]? [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/crime/general/uk-considering-pointed-knife-ban-in-desperate-attempt-to-fight-terrorism/ar-AA1yBL6T https://www.msn.com/en-us/crime/general/uk-considering-point...
        littlestymaar 9mo ago
        With the appropriate permit, yes. Which is also the case in Minnesota. (The permit requirements differ a lot between countries, but that an implementation detail, you should not be killed while respecting the law)
  - lisdexan 9mo ago
    Just be rich (in debt) like Americans seems like a bad plan for a global brand. Poorer countries outside NA and the EU buy stuff too, y'know.
- laughing_man 9mo ago
  If you're implying the US car market is hamstrung by manufacturer collusion, stupid regulations, and a legal environment that caters to dealers at the expense of customers, then... I agree.