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> officials rushed to defend immigration officers without waiting for key facts to emerge – in what former immigration officials called a clear break with past

> officials rushed to defend immigration officers without waiting for key facts to emerge – in what former immigration officials called a clear break with past practice for federal agencies Without obscuring how bad is it, I don't believe there was ever a time when officials _didn't_ rush to defend federal officers without waiting for key facts to emerge. The us government has constantly loved to say that no one working for them has done anything wrong.

Sabinus 9mo ago
Calling American citizens domestic terrorists 30 mins after they were shot dead by agents of the President's shiny new initiative is a bit of an escalation on the generic government face-saving responses. The rhetoric is escalating and dangerous.
- guerrilla 9mo ago
  Is it? I really don't think so. You don't remember the whole "superpredator" thing? Every time a black dude is shot, they'll start talking about how he must have been some kinda criminal. People of color have been suffering this shit forever. Sure, the Internet makes things faster, but the policies are the same.
  - deinonychus 9mo ago
    in that case, it seems like as good of a time to stop as ever
    - guerrilla 9mo ago
      It's seemed like a good time for quite a while...
      - NoGravitas 9mo ago
        The best time to stop is 250 years ago. The next best time to stop is now.
  - ModernMech 9mo ago
    You’re right about that. But the actual escalation is that the line of “whiteness” is shifting. Anyone not MAGA now is in the “not white” category as far as this administration is concerned. That means white liberals are now getting the “superpredator” treatment, building a permission structure to do state violence to them.
arxari 9mo ago
I think to an extent Trump is a fall guy, even when it comes to Venezuela he was dragged through the mud where his predecessors have constantly undermined the sovereignty of other nations and attacked them under the guise of protecting the US from terrorism when it was about oil and mineral ritches [1], the same with the deportation centers which while they were getting some criticism it was nowhere near the level of slander that there is towards the current admin doing the same thing. [1] https://youtu.be/C3LFbOSPfrE https://youtu.be/C3LFbOSPfrE
- istjohn 9mo ago
  Our cities are being occuppied by paramilitary forces who are assaulting residents, routinely telling brazen lies about high-profile incidents, and racially profiling without pretense. This is not normal.
- bediger4000 9mo ago
  If Trump got "dragged through the mud" on Venezuela, he did it to himself. What we know about that operation indicates it's clearly a Trump op. But overall, I also disagree. The press has been very easy on Trump, from going easy on the grab then by the pussy tape, to never saying that he lies, to not making an issue out of his mental decline.
- xtiansimon 9mo ago
  > “I think to an extent Trump is a fall guy…” That’s a strange conclusion to make, because the definition of a “fall guy” is someone who takes the blame, while others, who are more culpable, go free. Whereas most critics would say he’s the “kingpin”, and supporters say he’s “the decider”. You don’t need a very long awareness of political history to find examples of what government was like before to realize the US is in extraordinary times in terms of loyalty to his leadership and presidency. You don’t need to look long before you find repeat examples—from the Congress, the Supreme Court, and his appointees—of individuals making excuses or previously inconceivable accommodations for the president’s conduct, choices, and decisions to then conclude the president is, as they say, “calling the shots”. That is not the characteristic of a “fall guy”, but a “kingpin”. Personally, I feel we’re lucky that our “dictator-in-chief” is in the pattern of a real estate developer and not, say, a paranoid military general.
llm_nerd 9mo ago
Never like this. The way Noem et al. immediately started with the violent domestic terrorist rhetoric / we've done nothing wrong was absolutely unheralded, and the government was never like this. When there's a shooting you say that the situation on the ground is dynamic, evidence is being amassed, the subjects are on leave pending the investigation, etc. This was completely unlike the historic norm, and clearly it was the marching orders. They were obviously instructed to ape Trump's habit of utter confidence in the face of devastating reality. And I mean, it just reflects how Trump operates. Reality is secondary to what you claim it is, and if you lie, and everyone knows you lied, just repeat the lie again and again and it breaks many people's brains until some subset of the population will just go "Wow, no one is so shameless or vile they'd lie like this, so he must be telling the truth!". Similarly, immediately pretend that these situations and slam dunk, quick-close cases with over the top rhetoric (terrorism! ICE agent hospitalized in mortal danger, etc) no further consideration needed, is perfectly coherent with the way Trump has managed to con so, so many.

Sabinus 9mo ago

Calling American citizens domestic terrorists 30 mins after they were shot dead by agents of the President's shiny new initiative is a bit of an escalation on the generic government face-saving responses. The rhetoric is escalating and dangerous.

guerrilla 9mo ago
Is it? I really don't think so. You don't remember the whole "superpredator" thing? Every time a black dude is shot, they'll start talking about how he must have been some kinda criminal. People of color have been suffering this shit forever. Sure, the Internet makes things faster, but the policies are the same.
- deinonychus 9mo ago
  in that case, it seems like as good of a time to stop as ever
  - guerrilla 9mo ago
    It's seemed like a good time for quite a while...
    - NoGravitas 9mo ago
      The best time to stop is 250 years ago. The next best time to stop is now.
- ModernMech 9mo ago
  You’re right about that. But the actual escalation is that the line of “whiteness” is shifting. Anyone not MAGA now is in the “not white” category as far as this administration is concerned. That means white liberals are now getting the “superpredator” treatment, building a permission structure to do state violence to them.

arxari 9mo ago

I think to an extent Trump is a fall guy, even when it comes to Venezuela he was dragged through the mud where his predecessors have constantly undermined the sovereignty of other nations and attacked them under the guise of protecting the US from terrorism when it was about oil and mineral ritches [1], the same with the deportation centers which while they were getting some criticism it was nowhere near the level of slander that there is towards the current admin doing the same thing. [1] https://youtu.be/C3LFbOSPfrE https://youtu.be/C3LFbOSPfrE

istjohn 9mo ago
Our cities are being occuppied by paramilitary forces who are assaulting residents, routinely telling brazen lies about high-profile incidents, and racially profiling without pretense. This is not normal.
bediger4000 9mo ago
If Trump got "dragged through the mud" on Venezuela, he did it to himself. What we know about that operation indicates it's clearly a Trump op. But overall, I also disagree. The press has been very easy on Trump, from going easy on the grab then by the pussy tape, to never saying that he lies, to not making an issue out of his mental decline.
xtiansimon 9mo ago
> “I think to an extent Trump is a fall guy…” That’s a strange conclusion to make, because the definition of a “fall guy” is someone who takes the blame, while others, who are more culpable, go free. Whereas most critics would say he’s the “kingpin”, and supporters say he’s “the decider”. You don’t need a very long awareness of political history to find examples of what government was like before to realize the US is in extraordinary times in terms of loyalty to his leadership and presidency. You don’t need to look long before you find repeat examples—from the Congress, the Supreme Court, and his appointees—of individuals making excuses or previously inconceivable accommodations for the president’s conduct, choices, and decisions to then conclude the president is, as they say, “calling the shots”. That is not the characteristic of a “fall guy”, but a “kingpin”. Personally, I feel we’re lucky that our “dictator-in-chief” is in the pattern of a real estate developer and not, say, a paranoid military general.

llm_nerd 9mo ago

Never like this. The way Noem et al. immediately started with the violent domestic terrorist rhetoric / we've done nothing wrong was absolutely unheralded, and the government was never like this. When there's a shooting you say that the situation on the ground is dynamic, evidence is being amassed, the subjects are on leave pending the investigation, etc. This was completely unlike the historic norm, and clearly it was the marching orders. They were obviously instructed to ape Trump's habit of utter confidence in the face of devastating reality. And I mean, it just reflects how Trump operates. Reality is secondary to what you claim it is, and if you lie, and everyone knows you lied, just repeat the lie again and again and it breaks many people's brains until some subset of the population will just go "Wow, no one is so shameless or vile they'd lie like this, so he must be telling the truth!". Similarly, immediately pretend that these situations and slam dunk, quick-close cases with over the top rhetoric (terrorism! ICE agent hospitalized in mortal danger, etc) no further consideration needed, is perfectly coherent with the way Trump has managed to con so, so many.