4 ms·

Apple does this all the time, though, and seems to get a free pass here. I have four Macs in my home, and they are cut off at Ventura (for the 2017 iMac), Monte

Apple does this all the time, though, and seems to get a free pass here. I have four Macs in my home, and they are cut off at Ventura (for the 2017 iMac), Monterey (for the 2014 Mac Mini and the 2015 MacBook Air), and El Capitan (for the 2014 iMac). They are all stuck at 3, 4, and 5 major OS versions back. Nobody really seems to complain about this, though.

basch 9mo ago
I would say its part of the promise/agreement of buying into the ecosystem, and a known caveat. Might be overly optimistic viewpoint.
b00ty4breakfast 9mo ago
because desktop Apple users have been domesticated for decades now and just accept whatever shows up in the feeding trough.
radium3d 9mo ago
They don't get a free pass, I think people have spoken with their wallets and it shows with the user base counts: Windows 66–73%, macOS 14–16%, Linux 3–4%. Apple seems to support their previous generation OS on older macs for ~8-9 years or so from what I've seen. You just don't get the latest generation features, they cut it off and move on similar to how Microsoft did.
everdrive 9mo ago
I think Apple gets a pass because they're a luxury product. For the record, even though Apple has some really impressive hardware, this is one of the reasons I'm not very big on Apple. People praise their phone's longevity all the time, but I think this is crazy. I could be running a 13 year old computer right now and it would work fine if I had Linux. Smartphones don't really have options for this due to the market capture. Apple's PC could be supported longer, but Apple isn't interested in doing it. (and apparently they change architectures every 15 years anyhow.)
- firesteelrain 9mo ago
  I ran iPhone 6 and 8 well beyond their years. I only replaced because the batteries were already replaced once. But otherwise the phone was fine. I have had same issues with laptops
- Sohcahtoa82 9mo ago
  > I think Apple gets a pass because they're a luxury product. No they aren't. They've just convinced everyone that they are. I've seen people meme about Android being for people who couldn't afford an iPhone when the fact is that a flagship Android costs just as much as an iPhone.
  - kid64 9mo ago
    Or several times more, in some cases
  - frumplestlatz 9mo ago
    > No they aren't. They've just convinced everyone that they are. What’s the difference? Either way, Apple consistently makes decisions that I think put them on the side of “luxury item” — even if I often disagree with those decisions.
  - b00ty4breakfast 9mo ago
    That's the contemporary luxury market for nearly all goods; signifiers that tell folks "this item is more valuable because it has the magic sigil" or whatever.
  - sysworld 9mo ago
    I tried a "flagship Android" phone once (the top of the line Samsung), it was bugging the second I opened the pack. I returned it and got a cheap Pixel budget line phone. Then a few years later I jumped ship to iPhone, and largely am very happy now. Nothing is perfect, but for me, iPhone is the best I've tried.
  - jjkaczor 9mo ago
    That is the reality of pretty much every "luxury product/brand"... It is convincing people to pay a premium for what is still at the end of the day a stitched leather bag, watch, computer or smartphone made in factories like everything else. People pay for names, to project their luxury lifestyle. It is very rare that the actual quality/performance of a "luxury item" is dramatically above a high-quality equivalent. Does a Rolex tell time and look better than a Breitling? Or a Tag Heur? Or a Seiko? Each of those represents a different price/style point - and ultimately it is subjective to a consumer - who wants to project a certain style/look.
ufmace 9mo ago
I don't think it's the same. On older Apple hardware, it just keeps on running on the older OS version. You don't get some new features or styling of the new OS, but nothing else changes. On Windows, it periodically brings up full-screen notifications that your hardware is obsolete and you need to upgrade, with the only options being to upgrade or "remind me again later".
- mort96 9mo ago
  They also provide security updates for those old OSes for quite a while, AFAIK.
  - Salgat 9mo ago
    macOS receives 1 year of full support and 2 additional years for security updates for each version with 6-8 years of upgrade eligibility. Windows 10 received 10 years of support (on top of a free upgrade from Windows 7/8.1 for most users).
    - mort96 9mo ago
      I'm not sure why you're counting the years of support for a version of the OS and not the years of support for a computer. The interesting thing is: if you bought a computer at year X, does it still receive updates at X+Y? There's loads of relatively young computers which can't upgrade to Windows 11 and therefore aren't supported anymore. That's the problem, not how long Windows 10 was supported.
      - Salgat 9mo ago
        Apple did the same thing when they dropped x86 support.
  - hurfdurf 9mo ago
    Some security updates. Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 26, iOS 26 and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions (for example, macOS 15, iOS 18 and so on). https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/deployment/depc4c80847a/web https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/deployment/depc4c80847...
PTOB 9mo ago
Apple only gets a free pass from folks who are invested in that particular kind of ... relationship.
cgriswald 9mo ago
They didn’t get a pass from me. My MacPro has been running Linux longer than it ran MacOS. Apple stopped supporting it officially at Mojave but I jumped ship earlier when I was forced to do a clean install rather than an upgrade because I had a RAID.
throwawaysoxjje 9mo ago
Because Apple been continuously doing deprecating hardware regularly since the mid 90s. And they’ll processor architecture every 10-15 years. Microsoft was the backward compatibility king.
- MarsIronPI 9mo ago
  Though it's kinda funny that Wine can run Windows applications that Windows can't. Windows doesn't support 16bit apps anymore, but Wine (at least Wine <9.0) still does.
stalfosknight 9mo ago
Apple will provide software and hardware support for any given product for at least 5 years. After those 5 years, you sometimes will still get security fixes. The reason for this is that newer software will start using hardware features and capabilities that only exist on newer hardware, not because Tim Cook is evilly cackling in his office "hahhahha! Let's force people to buy new Macs!!!"
- phatfish 9mo ago
  Erm, isn't the last bit a key part of Tim Cooks job (getting people to buy new apple stuff even if they don't really need it)?
  - stalfosknight 9mo ago
    Apple's hardware products generally sell themselves.
- ryandrake 9mo ago
  If only there was a way to write software that uses the new hardware features if they're available but falls back to a legacy path, if the hardware features were not available.
  - stalfosknight 9mo ago
    That introduces complexity to the codebase.
gogasca 9mo ago
[dead]
muyuu 9mo ago
idk what other people give passes to, but I had been a Linux desktop user since the mid 90s and Mac laptop user since ~G3 iBook years and I finally gave up on their laptops a few years ago; so it's mainly linux-linux now i think the last straw was the added telemetry that required so much effort to get rid of, but also for years they have made clear moves to make their laptops iOS-like progressively, which I cannot stand on so many levels

basch 9mo ago

I would say its part of the promise/agreement of buying into the ecosystem, and a known caveat. Might be overly optimistic viewpoint.

b00ty4breakfast 9mo ago

because desktop Apple users have been domesticated for decades now and just accept whatever shows up in the feeding trough.

radium3d 9mo ago

They don't get a free pass, I think people have spoken with their wallets and it shows with the user base counts: Windows 66–73%, macOS 14–16%, Linux 3–4%. Apple seems to support their previous generation OS on older macs for ~8-9 years or so from what I've seen. You just don't get the latest generation features, they cut it off and move on similar to how Microsoft did.

everdrive 9mo ago

I think Apple gets a pass because they're a luxury product. For the record, even though Apple has some really impressive hardware, this is one of the reasons I'm not very big on Apple. People praise their phone's longevity all the time, but I think this is crazy. I could be running a 13 year old computer right now and it would work fine if I had Linux. Smartphones don't really have options for this due to the market capture. Apple's PC could be supported longer, but Apple isn't interested in doing it. (and apparently they change architectures every 15 years anyhow.)

firesteelrain 9mo ago
I ran iPhone 6 and 8 well beyond their years. I only replaced because the batteries were already replaced once. But otherwise the phone was fine. I have had same issues with laptops
Sohcahtoa82 9mo ago
> I think Apple gets a pass because they're a luxury product. No they aren't. They've just convinced everyone that they are. I've seen people meme about Android being for people who couldn't afford an iPhone when the fact is that a flagship Android costs just as much as an iPhone.
- kid64 9mo ago
  Or several times more, in some cases
- frumplestlatz 9mo ago
  > No they aren't. They've just convinced everyone that they are. What’s the difference? Either way, Apple consistently makes decisions that I think put them on the side of “luxury item” — even if I often disagree with those decisions.
- b00ty4breakfast 9mo ago
  That's the contemporary luxury market for nearly all goods; signifiers that tell folks "this item is more valuable because it has the magic sigil" or whatever.
- sysworld 9mo ago
  I tried a "flagship Android" phone once (the top of the line Samsung), it was bugging the second I opened the pack. I returned it and got a cheap Pixel budget line phone. Then a few years later I jumped ship to iPhone, and largely am very happy now. Nothing is perfect, but for me, iPhone is the best I've tried.
- jjkaczor 9mo ago
  That is the reality of pretty much every "luxury product/brand"... It is convincing people to pay a premium for what is still at the end of the day a stitched leather bag, watch, computer or smartphone made in factories like everything else. People pay for names, to project their luxury lifestyle. It is very rare that the actual quality/performance of a "luxury item" is dramatically above a high-quality equivalent. Does a Rolex tell time and look better than a Breitling? Or a Tag Heur? Or a Seiko? Each of those represents a different price/style point - and ultimately it is subjective to a consumer - who wants to project a certain style/look.

ufmace 9mo ago

I don't think it's the same. On older Apple hardware, it just keeps on running on the older OS version. You don't get some new features or styling of the new OS, but nothing else changes. On Windows, it periodically brings up full-screen notifications that your hardware is obsolete and you need to upgrade, with the only options being to upgrade or "remind me again later".

mort96 9mo ago
They also provide security updates for those old OSes for quite a while, AFAIK.
- Salgat 9mo ago
  macOS receives 1 year of full support and 2 additional years for security updates for each version with 6-8 years of upgrade eligibility. Windows 10 received 10 years of support (on top of a free upgrade from Windows 7/8.1 for most users).
  - mort96 9mo ago
    I'm not sure why you're counting the years of support for a version of the OS and not the years of support for a computer. The interesting thing is: if you bought a computer at year X, does it still receive updates at X+Y? There's loads of relatively young computers which can't upgrade to Windows 11 and therefore aren't supported anymore. That's the problem, not how long Windows 10 was supported.
    - Salgat 9mo ago
      Apple did the same thing when they dropped x86 support.
- hurfdurf 9mo ago
  Some security updates. Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 26, iOS 26 and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions (for example, macOS 15, iOS 18 and so on). https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/deployment/depc4c80847a/web https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/deployment/depc4c80847...

PTOB 9mo ago

Apple only gets a free pass from folks who are invested in that particular kind of ... relationship.

cgriswald 9mo ago

They didn’t get a pass from me. My MacPro has been running Linux longer than it ran MacOS. Apple stopped supporting it officially at Mojave but I jumped ship earlier when I was forced to do a clean install rather than an upgrade because I had a RAID.

throwawaysoxjje 9mo ago

Because Apple been continuously doing deprecating hardware regularly since the mid 90s. And they’ll processor architecture every 10-15 years. Microsoft was the backward compatibility king.

MarsIronPI 9mo ago
Though it's kinda funny that Wine can run Windows applications that Windows can't. Windows doesn't support 16bit apps anymore, but Wine (at least Wine <9.0) still does.

stalfosknight 9mo ago

Apple will provide software and hardware support for any given product for at least 5 years. After those 5 years, you sometimes will still get security fixes. The reason for this is that newer software will start using hardware features and capabilities that only exist on newer hardware, not because Tim Cook is evilly cackling in his office "hahhahha! Let's force people to buy new Macs!!!"

phatfish 9mo ago
Erm, isn't the last bit a key part of Tim Cooks job (getting people to buy new apple stuff even if they don't really need it)?
- stalfosknight 9mo ago
  Apple's hardware products generally sell themselves.
ryandrake 9mo ago
If only there was a way to write software that uses the new hardware features if they're available but falls back to a legacy path, if the hardware features were not available.
- stalfosknight 9mo ago
  That introduces complexity to the codebase.

gogasca 9mo ago

[dead]

muyuu 9mo ago

idk what other people give passes to, but I had been a Linux desktop user since the mid 90s and Mac laptop user since ~G3 iBook years and I finally gave up on their laptops a few years ago; so it's mainly linux-linux now i think the last straw was the added telemetry that required so much effort to get rid of, but also for years they have made clear moves to make their laptops iOS-like progressively, which I cannot stand on so many levels