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> there are enough american job seekers in CS To be blunt: Not enough qualified ones. Look at the names of all the top AI papers of the past 3 years, not too m

• cultofmetatron 9mo ago
  > When you get bullied in American public schools for being a "nerd" and liking science and math, your country doesn't exactly produce a lot of state-of-the-art STEM professionals. Its worse than that. when I lived in america, I found that being a software engineer was a dealbreaker when it came to dating most women. Imagine my surprise going to other countries and finding that my chosen profession made me high value proposition to most women.
  • rune-dev 9mo ago
    As an American this does not match my experience at all. What profession were those women looking for?
    • johntarter 9mo ago
      Bartenders, starving artists, musicians, and athletes?
      • linksnapzz 9mo ago
        Those are the ones they fool around with; not the ones they marry.
        • irishcoffee 9mo ago
          Ha yeah. “You’re a really interesting person and a great fuck, but you don’t make enough money for this to be serious” the same person, a short while later “Why doesn’t anyone love me!?”
          • the_real_cher 9mo ago
            What is going on in this page haha
      • mghackerlady 9mo ago
        They tend to have personality, which I and most women consider more important than looks or money in my experience
        • johnnyanmac 9mo ago
          I don't think most professional athletes are lauded for their "personality". The other 3, sure. Bartenders need to be good at talking to people to succeed, and artists need to be more eccentric (in a different way from nerds) for their own success.
    • ipaddr 9mo ago
      Vets, climate change scientists, doctors, environmental lawyers and athletics. Bonus points for trustfunds and influencers. Women want to make as much as men but also want their partner to make more than them. Ever see a female doctor marrying a plumber or construction worker? No they marry Male doctors or lawyer of higher status.
      • mghackerlady 9mo ago
        Has it ever occurred to you that all those fields have one thing in common? it's empathy. The people in those positions tend to not be the kind to murder you when you say no. Not saying that's true for blue collar men, but the odds are significantly higher. Also doctors and lawyers naturally tend to be around doctors and lawyers, that's hardly the crazy observation you seem to think it is
        • johnnyanmac 9mo ago
          Sure but that doesn't fit the notion of "being a software engineer is a turnoff".
        • ipaddr 9mo ago
          Not sure lawyers or climate scientists have more empathy then a middle age man who lives with his mother and cares for her while getting a disability check. But woman prefer the former. The answer is woman value status. Getting murdered is a hollywood / news fear that rarely happens. People should be worried about deadly things that happen often like cancer or heart attacks. Those are rarely the leading story on the nightly news. Programmers are around programmers but the rate they marry another programmer is much less. Even with a gender imbalance women programmers are not seeking male programmers like women doctors.
          • mghackerlady 9mo ago
            I implore you to look at r/whenwomenrefuse
      • triceratops 9mo ago
    • deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  • mghackerlady 9mo ago
    I mean, I'm a woman and a software dev.. I suppose I'm not most women though. Anecdotally men in tech jobs tend to either be the best I've ever met or the worst I've ever met (loosely related to why they're in the field to begin with)
  • shimman 9mo ago
    Tech industry has no problems working with state police forces to imprison woman that get abortions or just generally profit off of making teenage girls depressed. We should applaud those women for not willing to date people that inflict misery and death upon them. Maybe the kids are alright after all?
    • johnnyanmac 9mo ago
      What industry has put actual resistance to these in these times? Plenty of Hollywood has wool over their eyes (though a few are starting to speak out), Sports bent the knee for a full year (especially FIFA), law firms capitulated, hospitals aren't gonna lose their massive profit margins over the health care stuff. No industry is coming out of this with a clean bill of health. You as an individual can only choose to not work with the most evil ones.
      • shimman 9mo ago
        Industries don't, people do. One thing to keep in mind is that corporations have always worked with fascism, they will never resist but workers can. Sabotage takes many forms and one can just look at how Dutch resistance worked against the Nazis. You can do many things to sabotage that are nonviolent and also highly effective: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_resistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_resistance I'd also be weary with your examples; many hospitals are experiencing effective strikes or law firms that capitulated are struggling finding clients or lost valuable workers.
        • johnnyanmac 9mo ago
          >I'd also be weary with your examples; many hospitals are experiencing effective strikes or law firms that capitulated are struggling finding clients or lost valuable workers. Well yes. That was partially my point. Tech is no different; there's a lot of companies capitulating but I see a huge surge of people speaking out against this. Even people you largely think of as non-partisan previously. I don't think it's fair to pit me into some fascist state because of a company I no longer work for nor perhaps never worked for. But tech lacks the unions that other industries have and by its nature is a lot more scattered out. I can't do much more than the ones criticizing the companies with regards to providing a "Dutch resistance"; I don't work for them (heck, I don't even have a full time job as of now) and I've done a lot of culling of what I use over the decade. Probably more than what many have done, but still seemingly insignificant in terms of their bottom line. I'm all for collective action, but I'm still looking for that collection. It seems like things need to get as bad as Minneapolis before that collection emerges.
• tmoertel 9mo ago
  > When you get bullied in American public schools for being a "nerd" and liking science and math, your country doesn't exactly produce a lot of state-of-the-art STEM professionals. You get a small handful of exceptional people who overcame the adversity but that's it. Is bullying nerds still happening? It was commonplace when I was young in the 1980s. (In fact, it was so common that it was the basis of the 1984 movie Revenge of the Nerds.) But I had thought the social status of nerds and geeks had leveled up a few times since then. Did the level-ups not happen?
  • dheera 9mo ago
    > But I had thought the social status of nerds and geeks had leveled up a few times since then. Only in places like Palo Alto, Boston, Seattle, etc. Not in most of the cornfield country.
  • mghackerlady 9mo ago
    Yes and no. Generally, you don't necessarily get bullied but you lose opportunities to interact with people. Most students in the US do not care about academics more than they need to, and the kind of "nerd" to care about math and science likely doesn't have much to talk about with these people or even is able to have a meaningful conversation without being told something along the lines of "it's not that deep" or "I'm not reading allat"
• vineyardmike 9mo ago
  > Look at the names of all the top AI papers of the past 3 years, not too many are American. There are plenty of Americans who don’t have a European names.
• hajile 9mo ago
  Producing AI papers isn't the job requirement for 99.9% of STEM jobs. I won't talk about other fields, but American devs (regardless of race) tend to be much more passionate about computer science and (perhaps as a result) tend to be much better at their job than those from the big-name outsourcing countries. I was tasked with finding an Indian hire a while ago. I lost count of exactly how many people I had to interview. (I spent a huge portion of my time for over a year doing interviews). We were looking for a senior developer, but settled for at most an intermediate developer. We swapped between multiple top-rated Indian recruiting firms, gave automated tests, had their interviewers ask pre-screening questions, but nothing helped improve candidate quality in any real way. I caught more people than I could count cheating answers on technical interviews (probably how they got past the screeners). We didn't even look at anyone without at least 10 years of "experience", but less than 10% of candidates could write basic fizzbuzz (and some of them accidentally showed that they were using GPT to try to code what we wanted because they didn't have a clue). It may be an anecdote, but the sample size was quite large and we are a F500 company with the ability to attract talent, so I think its likely that we were attracting better-than-average candidates too. EDIT: I'd add that it's not just my team. I've sat as an observer for a lot of other hiring interviews and they had the same problem. Across our company, we've had massive turnover in our outsourced India centers because the people they hired did such poor work.
  • liveoneggs 9mo ago
    tell us more about your racial-based hiring
    • hajile 9mo ago
      We used to have contractors/employees from a bunch of different countries (India, EU, Eastern Europe, South America, etc). Our (largely Indian) tech management pushed very hard for us to offshore to India exclusively. We had to let people go who had been great contributors. Some of them were actually CHEAPER than the Indians who replaced them. I tried very hard to keep one of these people and after much politics up and down the management chain ultimately got "yes, he's a proven coder who does great work and costs less than all our recent Indian hires, but you have to let him go anyway because he's not based in India". I've never encountered something like that and it tells me that money wasn't the primary driving factor at all.
• VirusNewbie 9mo ago
  Sorry man, American raised autists beat chinese 996 every day of the week. shrug. I mean that in the cultural sense, not racially. ABC autists are S tier too.
• SilverElfin 9mo ago
  I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. The most important paper in the AI era was written by a team of immigrants.
  • boelboel 9mo ago
    Because it's an attack on 'american culture', I'm not even sure if nerds get bullied that much in school anymore. Often "nerds" are the ones bullying, i say "nerds" because the people getting good grades and into great universities, the ones getting into tech, are often just strivers instead of nerds. "Real nerds" are a tiny minority of people in any country and I doubt they account for most immigrants in the US, it's mostly just upper middle class strivers I've noticed.
• efskap 9mo ago
  What's an American name? Are you referring to WASP (White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant) names?