4 ms·

The shooting part was the accident. Of course you draw and aim a gun if you're detaining someone who also has a gun.

by kreetx 9mo ago

mmustapic 9mo ago
He didn't have a gun when he was shot, what are you talking about? He didn't even have a gun in his hand. Or you mean that you can accidentally shoot somebody who had a gun, at some point in the past?
- kreetx 9mo ago
  I think you can shoot someone if you have reason to believe that somebody has a gun. In this particular occasion the guy did not have another gun. (Hence I'm calling it an accident, where the police officer may be at fault. Though, other commentators saying it was cold blooded, a death sentence, deliberate, etc. is not true. Nor is generalizing this particular situation to changes in government type. These people really want to portray their political opponent as bad as they possibly can.)
  - gaahrdner 9mo ago
    > I think you can shoot someone if you have reason to believe that somebody has a gun I need you to read this and really think about the words.
    - kreetx 9mo ago
      Should one wait to be get shot first until you are allowed to shoot back?
      - mmustapic 9mo ago
        So, if you carry a gun and the police approaches you, better to shoot them?
        kreetx 9mo ago
        You should not carry a gun to a protest, not engage physically with an officer nor resist when they start arresting you after that. You should watch the video. While seem to be an accident, a way to avoid it would have just been not bring a gun in the first place nor engage physically with law enforcement. These actions in general to restrict law enforcement to do their job isn't helping either. Protest in front of government buildings, not follow police around.
        mmustapic 9mo ago
        You should watch the video, the police are the ones who engaged physically: pushed Pretti, pepper sprayed him, dragged him on to the street, hit him on the head repeatedly, and then got scared and shot. You can protest wherever you like that's legal. If police cannot handle that (start fights and then get scared and shoot) they shouldn't be police. Also, it is absolutely legal to follow police around. It doesn't make sense to make something legal while justifying getting shot for it (unless you want to make it illegal eventually).
        kreetx 9mo ago
        Yes of course the police engaged physically too! But Pretti did too. What's wrong with being still, the woman can't get up without Pretti?
        mmustapic 9mo ago
        No, they started the engagement. What's wrong with trying to help somebody pushed to the street? Or are you recommending just letting police push people with cell phones to the ground and pepper spray them, unless you want to be shot dead?
        kreetx 8mo ago
        What do you think about this assesment https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_ https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_ ?
kreetx 9mo ago
(to the sibling, mmustapic) What I'm saying is that he did have a gun, this particular gun was taken away, then he was apparently reaching for something else, which may have been mistaken for a gun, hence the shot. Or, the officer fired at him for some other suspicion. Regardless, you don't have perfect information in a situation like this. The guy wasn't behaving peacefully either. My suggestion would be to obey orders, don't bring weapons to protests, don't resist when you're being detained. And so on.
- mmustapic 9mo ago
  What order was he disobeying? They pepper sprayed him and dragged him to the flor, he didn't have a gun in his hands, no danger at all, so why shoot him? He wasn't grabbing anything, you see his hands are free in the video. And not behaving peacefully (who would when you are pepper sprayed and are hitting you in the head) shouldn't (in a decent country) be a reason to be shot.
  - mmustapic 9mo ago
    Or better, so that you can think about. Pretti was standing there filming. What should have he done to "obey"? What was his mistake before they pushed him? Before they sprayed him? Before they dragged him to the ground, back to the street? Before they hit him in the head? What should have he done to prevent being shot?
kreetx 9mo ago
He was apparently grabbing something, which was said to be a phone. I personally would have just been entirely still right from the moment the detainment process started.
- mmustapic 9mo ago
  Oh man, so the police can just jump on you and get scared because you are grabbing a phone, and shoot you? Good luck with your life, you'll need it.
  - kreetx 9mo ago
    The police is just as human as you and me. This person was carrying one gun - he might have more weapons on him. He was also resisting the takedown while the gun was found. You make it seem as this was just a random guy walking with a phone, and was shot.
- snarky_dog 9mo ago
  [dead]
- spacechild1 9mo ago
  I'd like to see you stay calm when you suddenly get peppersprayed directly in the face and wrestled to the ground.
  - kreetx 9mo ago
    Well, exactly. My recommendation would be not to carry a gun where there is law enforcement already there. Or if you do, don't resist capture. I.e, I maintain that this was an accident. The police didn't want to shoot this person, nor did the person want to use his gun. But it appeared like that to both sides which then caused the event that followed.
    - spacechild1 9mo ago
      I'm not claiming that the ICE agent wanted to shoot Alex. I think the shooting itself was a case of gross incompetence. However, they intentionally attacked and assaulted Alex without any immediate reason. How are supposed to stay calm when you get peppersprayed in the face out of the blue?

The shooting part was the accident. Of course you draw and aim a gun if you're detaining someone who also has a gun.

by kreetx 9mo ago

The shooting part was the accident. Of course you draw and aim a gun if you're detaining someone who also has a gun.

He didn't have a gun when he was shot, what are you talking about? He didn't even have a gun in his hand. Or you mean that you can accidentally shoot somebody who had a gun, at some point in the past?

kreetx 9mo ago
I think you can shoot someone if you have reason to believe that somebody has a gun. In this particular occasion the guy did not have another gun. (Hence I'm calling it an accident, where the police officer may be at fault. Though, other commentators saying it was cold blooded, a death sentence, deliberate, etc. is not true. Nor is generalizing this particular situation to changes in government type. These people really want to portray their political opponent as bad as they possibly can.)
- gaahrdner 9mo ago
  > I think you can shoot someone if you have reason to believe that somebody has a gun I need you to read this and really think about the words.
  - kreetx 9mo ago
    Should one wait to be get shot first until you are allowed to shoot back?
    - mmustapic 9mo ago
      So, if you carry a gun and the police approaches you, better to shoot them?
      - kreetx 9mo ago
        You should not carry a gun to a protest, not engage physically with an officer nor resist when they start arresting you after that. You should watch the video. While seem to be an accident, a way to avoid it would have just been not bring a gun in the first place nor engage physically with law enforcement. These actions in general to restrict law enforcement to do their job isn't helping either. Protest in front of government buildings, not follow police around.
        mmustapic 9mo ago
        You should watch the video, the police are the ones who engaged physically: pushed Pretti, pepper sprayed him, dragged him on to the street, hit him on the head repeatedly, and then got scared and shot. You can protest wherever you like that's legal. If police cannot handle that (start fights and then get scared and shoot) they shouldn't be police. Also, it is absolutely legal to follow police around. It doesn't make sense to make something legal while justifying getting shot for it (unless you want to make it illegal eventually).
        kreetx 9mo ago
        Yes of course the police engaged physically too! But Pretti did too. What's wrong with being still, the woman can't get up without Pretti?
        mmustapic 9mo ago
        No, they started the engagement. What's wrong with trying to help somebody pushed to the street? Or are you recommending just letting police push people with cell phones to the ground and pepper spray them, unless you want to be shot dead?
        kreetx 8mo ago
        What do you think about this assesment https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_ https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_ ?

kreetx 9mo ago

(to the sibling, mmustapic) What I'm saying is that he did have a gun, this particular gun was taken away, then he was apparently reaching for something else, which may have been mistaken for a gun, hence the shot. Or, the officer fired at him for some other suspicion. Regardless, you don't have perfect information in a situation like this. The guy wasn't behaving peacefully either. My suggestion would be to obey orders, don't bring weapons to protests, don't resist when you're being detained. And so on.

mmustapic 9mo ago
What order was he disobeying? They pepper sprayed him and dragged him to the flor, he didn't have a gun in his hands, no danger at all, so why shoot him? He wasn't grabbing anything, you see his hands are free in the video. And not behaving peacefully (who would when you are pepper sprayed and are hitting you in the head) shouldn't (in a decent country) be a reason to be shot.
- mmustapic 9mo ago
  Or better, so that you can think about. Pretti was standing there filming. What should have he done to "obey"? What was his mistake before they pushed him? Before they sprayed him? Before they dragged him to the ground, back to the street? Before they hit him in the head? What should have he done to prevent being shot?

kreetx 9mo ago

He was apparently grabbing something, which was said to be a phone. I personally would have just been entirely still right from the moment the detainment process started.

mmustapic 9mo ago
Oh man, so the police can just jump on you and get scared because you are grabbing a phone, and shoot you? Good luck with your life, you'll need it.
- kreetx 9mo ago
  The police is just as human as you and me. This person was carrying one gun - he might have more weapons on him. He was also resisting the takedown while the gun was found. You make it seem as this was just a random guy walking with a phone, and was shot.
snarky_dog 9mo ago
[dead]
spacechild1 9mo ago
I'd like to see you stay calm when you suddenly get peppersprayed directly in the face and wrestled to the ground.
- kreetx 9mo ago
  Well, exactly. My recommendation would be not to carry a gun where there is law enforcement already there. Or if you do, don't resist capture. I.e, I maintain that this was an accident. The police didn't want to shoot this person, nor did the person want to use his gun. But it appeared like that to both sides which then caused the event that followed.
  - spacechild1 9mo ago
    I'm not claiming that the ICE agent wanted to shoot Alex. I think the shooting itself was a case of gross incompetence. However, they intentionally attacked and assaulted Alex without any immediate reason. How are supposed to stay calm when you get peppersprayed in the face out of the blue?