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Initially i hated systemd for the change it bought and lennarts behavior, but today I'm wiser. Today i hate systemd for its bad debugability (edit unit & daemo

Initially i hated systemd for the change it bought and lennarts behavior, but today I'm wiser. Today i hate systemd for its bad debugability (edit unit & daemon-reload loops), the lockups that happen whenever there is a fifo in the wrong place, and the processes that systemd spawns with no apparent related unit and without means to mask them. And the difficult to disable suspends on machines that never had any business suspending.

bandrami 8mo ago
It's that lack of visibility that still makes me low-key hate it, though it's no longer the part of the modern Linux ecosystem that I hate most so I mostly just accept that it's part of watching a platform I used to really like enshittenate itself.
hiciu 8mo ago
Could you please expand bit more about those processes that systemd spawns without units? Cgroups in Linux kernel, and systemd-cgls tool should let you trace every process to a source
- blueflow 8mo ago
  ibus and goa both run under dbus.service. I ran into this problem because ibus runs later than setxkbmap and undoes the keyboard settings.
  - hiciu 8mo ago
    OK so those processes are launched not by systemd, but by dbus itself. There's probably a /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.IBus.service file in your system and if dbus sees something that tries to talk to IBus, and IBus is not running yet, dbus will launch it for you as directed in that file. In it's own namespace unless directed otherwise. There's an optional integration between dbus and systemd, look for SystemdService in man dbus-daemon. IBus does not set it. Perhaps it should. I don't know. > I ran into this problem because ibus runs later than setxkbmap and undoes the keyboard settings. that must've been pain to debug :). I can see on my system that there's a systemd user service that I could launch with `systemctl --user start org.freedesktop.IBus.session.generic.service`, maybe that would work better than on-demand via dbus in your case.
direwolf20 8mo ago
Same here.

bandrami 8mo ago

It's that lack of visibility that still makes me low-key hate it, though it's no longer the part of the modern Linux ecosystem that I hate most so I mostly just accept that it's part of watching a platform I used to really like enshittenate itself.

hiciu 8mo ago

Could you please expand bit more about those processes that systemd spawns without units? Cgroups in Linux kernel, and systemd-cgls tool should let you trace every process to a source

blueflow 8mo ago
ibus and goa both run under dbus.service. I ran into this problem because ibus runs later than setxkbmap and undoes the keyboard settings.
- hiciu 8mo ago
  OK so those processes are launched not by systemd, but by dbus itself. There's probably a /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.IBus.service file in your system and if dbus sees something that tries to talk to IBus, and IBus is not running yet, dbus will launch it for you as directed in that file. In it's own namespace unless directed otherwise. There's an optional integration between dbus and systemd, look for SystemdService in man dbus-daemon. IBus does not set it. Perhaps it should. I don't know. > I ran into this problem because ibus runs later than setxkbmap and undoes the keyboard settings. that must've been pain to debug :). I can see on my system that there's a systemd user service that I could launch with `systemctl --user start org.freedesktop.IBus.session.generic.service`, maybe that would work better than on-demand via dbus in your case.

direwolf20 8mo ago

Same here.