5 ms·

New high of 45% in US identify as political independents

32 points by teleforce 9mo ago

Taikonerd 9mo ago
I often wonder: if there were more parties in America, how many of these independents would register with one of them? In other words, if there's a record-high number of independents, how much of it is "market failure" where people want more options than the usual 2 parties?
- nomorewords 9mo ago
  At least in Bulgaria, 60% of people don't vote. Granted that we aren't that socially active as a country, I think that any amount of parties wouldn't bring much difference. Until the system starts working again, as in convicting criminals, preventing policymakers from benefiting from "timely" investments and overall bringing the wealth gap down, I don't think that you'd be able to reach all of the people
- arealaccount 9mo ago
  Probably close to zero. American voters vote defensively, always for the candidate that has the best chance of winning against the other guy.
  - Taikonerd 9mo ago
    Totally agree. But I mean: supposing that we had a voting system where minor parties were more viable and didn't play spoiler. What % of independents would register as Greens, or Libertarians, etc, in that system?
lapcat 9mo ago
The chart I found most interesting was "U.S. Political Ideology Identification, 1992-2025". Conservative has remained more or less static the whole time, 36% in 1992, 35% in 2025, which I guess makes a kind of sense, while moderate has dropped 10%, with a corresponding increase in liberal. I would personally call this social progress, though of course conservatives would disagree. On the other hand, the specific political policies supported by self-described conservatives and liberals has sometimes changed radically over those years, which can make my eyes roll and my head spin—for example, I remember a time when conservatives were free-trade internationalists—so I think it's a separate question whether US political policy itself has become too conservative or too liberal. In any case, the leaders of both parties tend to advance the interests of themselves and their donors over the interests of their voters or the public at large. I've come to see political parties, political ideologies, and even religions more as social groups than as repositories for specific beliefs, where the identity and attitude of the members is more important than consistency, logic, or truth.
- rayiner 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - lapcat 9mo ago
    "An estimated 300,000 people in the United States identified as Bangladeshi in 2023, according to estimates published by the U.S. Census Bureau." https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/fact-sheet/asian-americans-bangladeshis-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/fact-sheet/as... Not that your other claims about Bangladesh or Bangladeshis have an empirical basis either. But it was probably a mistake even to reply, because I'm well aware of you and have no interest in arguing with you again. It's pointless and frustrating.
    - rayiner 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - lapcat 9mo ago
        > Besides, what you’re overlooking is that the definition of “liberal” and “conservative” changes over time. I literally said that in my original comment, indeed immediately after the sentence of mine that you quoted. Good day, sir.
- asdff 9mo ago
  “ I've come to see political parties, political ideologies, and even religions more as social groups than as repositories for specific beliefs, where the identity and attitude of the members is more important than consistency, logic, or truth.” Even more concerning is when you realize no one even formally controls these beasts. Doing “what is best” for the party/church/company is sufficient to both drive the outcomes we observe, make it impossible to ever effect change from status quo since this is what any replacement piece would do, and offer a fig leaf of moral justification or even cognitive dissonance that this is what ought to be done whether you like it or not. Thousand generations upholding these zombie meta human organizations that march towards what, no one knows.
FireBeyond 9mo ago
I always have a skepticism with this... in my extended Facebook network (so acquaintances from work, the fire departments I used to be with)... there's a lot of people who identify as "libertarian" or "independent". You'd think that averaged out, their beliefs should align reasonably equally between conservative and liberal and those parties (either issue to issue or overarching). No. They are almost always fairly tightly and heavily lockstep aligned with the Republican party. My fiance has a few friends in the dating scene. Their comments mirror this: "If someone has "apolitical/I'm not into politics/centerist" on their profile you can generally assume they are quite conservative.
- lapcat 9mo ago
  > there's a lot of people who identify as "libertarian" or "independent". You'd think that averaged out, their beliefs should align reasonably equally between conservative and liberal and those parties (either issue to issue or overarching). According to the article, 27% of independents describe themselves as conservative (not to mention the 20% of Republicans who describe themselves as moderate). Also, the article talks about the "Republican-leaning independents" category, so I'm not sure about the basis for skepticism here.
  - LiquidSky 9mo ago
    You're noting how they describe themselves, but my experience has been the same as the parent comment, that "independent" always means conservative/Republican but not wanting to call themselves that.
    - lapcat 9mo ago
      > my experience has been the same as the parent comment, that "independent" always means conservative/Republican but not wanting to call themselves that. Nobody is denying the existence of this phenomenon. And there's perhaps good reason for people to eschew identification with political parties, which are corrupt in various ways, though one may hold one's nose and vote for some major party candidate on election day. I dispute the "always" claim, however, which appears to be based on your own anecdotal experience. I would trust Gallup polling more than that. Moreover, the existence of the Green party for example would appear to be proof that independent does not equate with conservative/Republican. The Libertarian party of course gets votes too.
radicalethics 9mo ago
lmao, That's like being an independent during Nazism. Like, seriously? You can't figure out the right side here? You just can't count on some people to be on the right side of history quite frankly.
- foxyv 9mo ago
  Leaving the Republican party is so close to leaving a cult as to be indistinguishable. They are so dead set on vilifying outsiders that they won't even associate with non-republicans and Democrats in a civil fashion. I once had a family member threaten to punch me in the face for mentioning UBI. It takes years to shrug off the programming.
  - radicalethics 9mo ago
    I once had a family member threaten to punch me in the face for mentioning UBI. lol! How could someone become so stingy in life?
    - asdff 9mo ago
      Ensuring the poor are made to suffer for being poor is a core tenant of the republican ethos. If you don’t have someone to punch down upon you might have a chance to consider your own position in this world, which is dangerous to the power structures that be.
- cosmicgadget 9mo ago
  Sorry are you saying nonpartisan people aren't able to vote against "Nazism"?
cosmicgadget 9mo ago
Magas pushed out neocons and anyone who isn't a single-issue voter. DNC has tried its hardest to lose as much political power as possible. I wonder if this is the first step toward the end of the two party system but I fear it is a move toward a Russialike "I'm not political" status quo.
- pseudohadamard 9mo ago
  You know your political system is bankrupt when "None of the above" would win the election.

32 points by teleforce 9mo ago

I often wonder: if there were more parties in America, how many of these independents would register with one of them? In other words, if there's a record-high number of independents, how much of it is "market failure" where people want more options than the usual 2 parties?

nomorewords 9mo ago
At least in Bulgaria, 60% of people don't vote. Granted that we aren't that socially active as a country, I think that any amount of parties wouldn't bring much difference. Until the system starts working again, as in convicting criminals, preventing policymakers from benefiting from "timely" investments and overall bringing the wealth gap down, I don't think that you'd be able to reach all of the people
arealaccount 9mo ago
Probably close to zero. American voters vote defensively, always for the candidate that has the best chance of winning against the other guy.
- Taikonerd 9mo ago
  Totally agree. But I mean: supposing that we had a voting system where minor parties were more viable and didn't play spoiler. What % of independents would register as Greens, or Libertarians, etc, in that system?

lapcat 9mo ago

The chart I found most interesting was "U.S. Political Ideology Identification, 1992-2025". Conservative has remained more or less static the whole time, 36% in 1992, 35% in 2025, which I guess makes a kind of sense, while moderate has dropped 10%, with a corresponding increase in liberal. I would personally call this social progress, though of course conservatives would disagree. On the other hand, the specific political policies supported by self-described conservatives and liberals has sometimes changed radically over those years, which can make my eyes roll and my head spin—for example, I remember a time when conservatives were free-trade internationalists—so I think it's a separate question whether US political policy itself has become too conservative or too liberal. In any case, the leaders of both parties tend to advance the interests of themselves and their donors over the interests of their voters or the public at large. I've come to see political parties, political ideologies, and even religions more as social groups than as repositories for specific beliefs, where the identity and attitude of the members is more important than consistency, logic, or truth.

rayiner 9mo ago
[flagged]
- lapcat 9mo ago
  "An estimated 300,000 people in the United States identified as Bangladeshi in 2023, according to estimates published by the U.S. Census Bureau." https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/fact-sheet/asian-americans-bangladeshis-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/fact-sheet/as... Not that your other claims about Bangladesh or Bangladeshis have an empirical basis either. But it was probably a mistake even to reply, because I'm well aware of you and have no interest in arguing with you again. It's pointless and frustrating.
  - rayiner 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - lapcat 9mo ago
      > Besides, what you’re overlooking is that the definition of “liberal” and “conservative” changes over time. I literally said that in my original comment, indeed immediately after the sentence of mine that you quoted. Good day, sir.
asdff 9mo ago
“ I've come to see political parties, political ideologies, and even religions more as social groups than as repositories for specific beliefs, where the identity and attitude of the members is more important than consistency, logic, or truth.” Even more concerning is when you realize no one even formally controls these beasts. Doing “what is best” for the party/church/company is sufficient to both drive the outcomes we observe, make it impossible to ever effect change from status quo since this is what any replacement piece would do, and offer a fig leaf of moral justification or even cognitive dissonance that this is what ought to be done whether you like it or not. Thousand generations upholding these zombie meta human organizations that march towards what, no one knows.

FireBeyond 9mo ago

I always have a skepticism with this... in my extended Facebook network (so acquaintances from work, the fire departments I used to be with)... there's a lot of people who identify as "libertarian" or "independent". You'd think that averaged out, their beliefs should align reasonably equally between conservative and liberal and those parties (either issue to issue or overarching). No. They are almost always fairly tightly and heavily lockstep aligned with the Republican party. My fiance has a few friends in the dating scene. Their comments mirror this: "If someone has "apolitical/I'm not into politics/centerist" on their profile you can generally assume they are quite conservative.

lapcat 9mo ago
> there's a lot of people who identify as "libertarian" or "independent". You'd think that averaged out, their beliefs should align reasonably equally between conservative and liberal and those parties (either issue to issue or overarching). According to the article, 27% of independents describe themselves as conservative (not to mention the 20% of Republicans who describe themselves as moderate). Also, the article talks about the "Republican-leaning independents" category, so I'm not sure about the basis for skepticism here.
- LiquidSky 9mo ago
  You're noting how they describe themselves, but my experience has been the same as the parent comment, that "independent" always means conservative/Republican but not wanting to call themselves that.
  - lapcat 9mo ago
    > my experience has been the same as the parent comment, that "independent" always means conservative/Republican but not wanting to call themselves that. Nobody is denying the existence of this phenomenon. And there's perhaps good reason for people to eschew identification with political parties, which are corrupt in various ways, though one may hold one's nose and vote for some major party candidate on election day. I dispute the "always" claim, however, which appears to be based on your own anecdotal experience. I would trust Gallup polling more than that. Moreover, the existence of the Green party for example would appear to be proof that independent does not equate with conservative/Republican. The Libertarian party of course gets votes too.

radicalethics 9mo ago

lmao, That's like being an independent during Nazism. Like, seriously? You can't figure out the right side here? You just can't count on some people to be on the right side of history quite frankly.

foxyv 9mo ago
Leaving the Republican party is so close to leaving a cult as to be indistinguishable. They are so dead set on vilifying outsiders that they won't even associate with non-republicans and Democrats in a civil fashion. I once had a family member threaten to punch me in the face for mentioning UBI. It takes years to shrug off the programming.
- radicalethics 9mo ago
  I once had a family member threaten to punch me in the face for mentioning UBI. lol! How could someone become so stingy in life?
  - asdff 9mo ago
    Ensuring the poor are made to suffer for being poor is a core tenant of the republican ethos. If you don’t have someone to punch down upon you might have a chance to consider your own position in this world, which is dangerous to the power structures that be.
cosmicgadget 9mo ago
Sorry are you saying nonpartisan people aren't able to vote against "Nazism"?

cosmicgadget 9mo ago

Magas pushed out neocons and anyone who isn't a single-issue voter. DNC has tried its hardest to lose as much political power as possible. I wonder if this is the first step toward the end of the two party system but I fear it is a move toward a Russialike "I'm not political" status quo.

pseudohadamard 9mo ago
You know your political system is bankrupt when "None of the above" would win the election.