4 ms·

One person showed up with a gun, the other tried to flee (or run over) an officer.

by kreetx 9mo ago

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
mmustapic 9mo ago
Carrying a gun, or fleeing, is not punishable by death. In any decent country, of course.
- kreetx 9mo ago
  These were accidents, not court proceedings where you have weeks or months to think things over. My prediction is that if you investigate them, then in the case where the woman was trying to drive away, the officer likely has no fault at all, as the drive may have easily be interpreted as driving towards him. On the armed protestor occasion, there might be some fault as the gun seemed to have gone off unexpectedly. But it won't be punished too hard, if at all, as the victim was actively escalating the situation. These weren't punishments ("death sentences" as someone else called them). These were accidents where the victims themselves were (mostly) at fault.
  - DangitBobby 9mo ago
    I'd forgive you for thinking they were accidents if you hadn't seen the videos or heard them described to you. They were cold blooded murder.
    - kreetx 9mo ago
      I did see the videos, that was what made me come to that conclusion. I don't need any forgiveness from you. You should forgive yourself instead, become part of the grown-ups!
      - DangitBobby 9mo ago
        Uh huh. It seems to be a small proportion of American man-children that don't understand what's happening, the rest of the world sees it plain as day. Anyway, you obviously didn't actually watch the videos. Try opening your fucking eyes next time.
        kreetx 9mo ago
        Name calling truly is the grown up thing to do!
        DangitBobby 9mo ago
        You literally said: > You should forgive yourself instead, become part of the grown-ups! Or maybe you also have amnesia? In case this is hard to understand, you implied (intentionally insultingly) that I'm not a grown-up. So you invited ridicule on yourself. I think people like you are fucking idiots and I love having an excuse to tell you because you decided to stop being civil.
        kreetx 9mo ago
        Well, you argue for interference with law enforcement. I don't see how that helps "the cause", it also puts the participants in danger. I.e, the few deaths that have already occurred.
        DangitBobby 9mo ago
        First, it is the duty of law enforcement to recognize a situation that can and should be de-escalated. The public is not an cannot be responsible for that, and it doesn't justify murder if they aren't. "Interference", while in my opinion very warranted here, doesn't constitute an imminent life threat to Law enforcement nor the public, and it is not permissible for them to use lethal force in that situation. Aside from killing wantonly and happily ("fucking bitch"), law enforcement in this case is acting illegally on administrative warrants, violating the Constitution to enter houses they do not have legal warrants for, being masked and unidentifiable (and thus unaccountable for their actions to the public) when they commit attrocities in the public view (why would a legitimate police force need to hide its face) and generally being a public menace. It is your civic duty and a proud American tradition to stand up to lawless police forces.
  - mmustapic 9mo ago
    They were not accidents. No one accidentally draws, aims a gun and shoots. If that whole sequence is accidental, that person shouldn't be in charge of a weapon.
    - kreetx 9mo ago
      The shooting part was the accident. Of course you draw and aim a gun if you're detaining someone who also has a gun.
      - mmustapic 9mo ago
        He didn't have a gun when he was shot, what are you talking about? He didn't even have a gun in his hand. Or you mean that you can accidentally shoot somebody who had a gun, at some point in the past?
        kreetx 9mo ago
        I think you can shoot someone if you have reason to believe that somebody has a gun. In this particular occasion the guy did not have another gun. (Hence I'm calling it an accident, where the police officer may be at fault. Though, other commentators saying it was cold blooded, a death sentence, deliberate, etc. is not true. Nor is generalizing this particular situation to changes in government type. These people really want to portray their political opponent as bad as they possibly can.)
        gaahrdner 9mo ago
        > I think you can shoot someone if you have reason to believe that somebody has a gun I need you to read this and really think about the words.
        kreetx 9mo ago
        Should one wait to be get shot first until you are allowed to shoot back?
  - roumenguha 9mo ago
    Obviously there may be people who disagree about the facts of these cases. Trends, however, may bear more weight: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/us-border-agents-intentionally-stepped-front-moving-vehicles-justify-shooting-them/ https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/us-border-agents-i...
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 9mo ago
      That article has a 404 link in the first paragraph, which probably used to link to this article: https://archive.is/RXVqn https://archive.is/RXVqn (https://archive.is/https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-killings-20140227* https://archive.is/https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-bord...)
      - kreetx 8mo ago
        This is Alex Pretti more than a week before the fatal event: https://youtu.be/r0L9JUjcwo0?t=597 https://youtu.be/r0L9JUjcwo0?t=597.
snarky_dog 9mo ago
[dead]
0dayz 9mo ago
Neither of which is justified in being killed. Unless you live in China or North Korea perhaps, maybe then the officers are allowed to blast you to pieces for any of these situations.

One person showed up with a gun, the other tried to flee (or run over) an officer.

by kreetx 9mo ago

One person showed up with a gun, the other tried to flee (or run over) an officer.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

mmustapic 9mo ago

Carrying a gun, or fleeing, is not punishable by death. In any decent country, of course.

kreetx 9mo ago
These were accidents, not court proceedings where you have weeks or months to think things over. My prediction is that if you investigate them, then in the case where the woman was trying to drive away, the officer likely has no fault at all, as the drive may have easily be interpreted as driving towards him. On the armed protestor occasion, there might be some fault as the gun seemed to have gone off unexpectedly. But it won't be punished too hard, if at all, as the victim was actively escalating the situation. These weren't punishments ("death sentences" as someone else called them). These were accidents where the victims themselves were (mostly) at fault.
- DangitBobby 9mo ago
  I'd forgive you for thinking they were accidents if you hadn't seen the videos or heard them described to you. They were cold blooded murder.
  - kreetx 9mo ago
    I did see the videos, that was what made me come to that conclusion. I don't need any forgiveness from you. You should forgive yourself instead, become part of the grown-ups!
    - DangitBobby 9mo ago
      Uh huh. It seems to be a small proportion of American man-children that don't understand what's happening, the rest of the world sees it plain as day. Anyway, you obviously didn't actually watch the videos. Try opening your fucking eyes next time.
      - kreetx 9mo ago
        Name calling truly is the grown up thing to do!
        DangitBobby 9mo ago
        You literally said: > You should forgive yourself instead, become part of the grown-ups! Or maybe you also have amnesia? In case this is hard to understand, you implied (intentionally insultingly) that I'm not a grown-up. So you invited ridicule on yourself. I think people like you are fucking idiots and I love having an excuse to tell you because you decided to stop being civil.
        kreetx 9mo ago
        Well, you argue for interference with law enforcement. I don't see how that helps "the cause", it also puts the participants in danger. I.e, the few deaths that have already occurred.
        DangitBobby 9mo ago
        First, it is the duty of law enforcement to recognize a situation that can and should be de-escalated. The public is not an cannot be responsible for that, and it doesn't justify murder if they aren't. "Interference", while in my opinion very warranted here, doesn't constitute an imminent life threat to Law enforcement nor the public, and it is not permissible for them to use lethal force in that situation. Aside from killing wantonly and happily ("fucking bitch"), law enforcement in this case is acting illegally on administrative warrants, violating the Constitution to enter houses they do not have legal warrants for, being masked and unidentifiable (and thus unaccountable for their actions to the public) when they commit attrocities in the public view (why would a legitimate police force need to hide its face) and generally being a public menace. It is your civic duty and a proud American tradition to stand up to lawless police forces.
- mmustapic 9mo ago
  They were not accidents. No one accidentally draws, aims a gun and shoots. If that whole sequence is accidental, that person shouldn't be in charge of a weapon.
  - kreetx 9mo ago
    The shooting part was the accident. Of course you draw and aim a gun if you're detaining someone who also has a gun.
    - mmustapic 9mo ago
      He didn't have a gun when he was shot, what are you talking about? He didn't even have a gun in his hand. Or you mean that you can accidentally shoot somebody who had a gun, at some point in the past?
      - kreetx 9mo ago
        I think you can shoot someone if you have reason to believe that somebody has a gun. In this particular occasion the guy did not have another gun. (Hence I'm calling it an accident, where the police officer may be at fault. Though, other commentators saying it was cold blooded, a death sentence, deliberate, etc. is not true. Nor is generalizing this particular situation to changes in government type. These people really want to portray their political opponent as bad as they possibly can.)
        gaahrdner 9mo ago
        > I think you can shoot someone if you have reason to believe that somebody has a gun I need you to read this and really think about the words.
        kreetx 9mo ago
        Should one wait to be get shot first until you are allowed to shoot back?
- roumenguha 9mo ago
  Obviously there may be people who disagree about the facts of these cases. Trends, however, may bear more weight: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/us-border-agents-intentionally-stepped-front-moving-vehicles-justify-shooting-them/ https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/us-border-agents-i...
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 9mo ago
    That article has a 404 link in the first paragraph, which probably used to link to this article: https://archive.is/RXVqn https://archive.is/RXVqn (https://archive.is/https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-killings-20140227* https://archive.is/https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-bord...)
    - kreetx 8mo ago
      This is Alex Pretti more than a week before the fatal event: https://youtu.be/r0L9JUjcwo0?t=597 https://youtu.be/r0L9JUjcwo0?t=597.

snarky_dog 9mo ago

[dead]

0dayz 9mo ago

Neither of which is justified in being killed. Unless you live in China or North Korea perhaps, maybe then the officers are allowed to blast you to pieces for any of these situations.