4 ms·

> any forced firings they will be well taken care of under Dutch labour laws Yes. Notice period stays in tact. Transition payment is 1/3rd of a monthly wage pe

by retired 9mo ago

> any forced firings they will be well taken care of under Dutch labour laws Yes. Notice period stays in tact. Transition payment is 1/3rd of a monthly wage per year worked. And then your unemployment runs for up to 24 months at 70% of your income capped at €4500. Unemployment benefits are unconditional until you find a new job.

joe_mamba 9mo ago
That's pretty generous, even for EU standards. In Austria for example, unconditional unemployment is 60% of your income and only lasting for a dozen or so weeks, after which you are forced to accept any job offer thrown at you or risk having your unemployment taken away.
- retired 9mo ago
  Unemployment benefits is something you build up during your career, not just your current employer. For each year in employment you get one month of unemployment. The limit is 24 months. And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months.
  - joe_mamba 9mo ago
    >And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months. I think that heavily depends. If they're just a laid off manager without a strong network or industry connections at other major semi companies, then they might be shit out of luck since in the current economy, there's little to no demand for companies to hire more management. On the contrary, many companies now are laying of their own managers too and not hiring new ones. If they need management tasks they tend to give them to existing IC staff instead of hiring dedicated managers from outside, which IMHO might be a good thing.
  - portly 9mo ago
    The current job market for managers does not look great since Elon let that sink in.
  - consp 9mo ago
    That changed in 2016 to 0.5 months per year.
    - retired 9mo ago
      After the first ten years of employment. You also have CAOs (collective labour agreement) that are more favourable. It all depends on your work history, what CAOs you worked under and when you started work.
Freak_NL 9mo ago
> Unemployment benefits are unconditional until you find a new job. They are quite conditional: you must be applying for a new job while receiving them, and after the first six months any job you can do is eligible (not just the jobs you would want to do). You must report your job applications to the unemployment agency, and you can get called in and cut off from benefits for not earnestly seeking a job.
- retired 9mo ago
  That is what I meant with “until you find a new job”. You must indeed be actively looking for a job. But they are unconditional in that they are not means tested or have other clauses that could cause you to not get paid. You do not have to eat your savings, house or car. You are allowed to keep those.
- cbolton 9mo ago
  I'm curious how that works in the extreme... Isn't prostitution legal in the Netherlands? A brothel can offer you a job and you have to accept?
  - retired 9mo ago
    I doubt that you will end up in the red light district but it’s possible that a middle management position will end up in an Amazon distribution center as an order picker or has to harvest strawberries. Not that bad and you might learn some Polish or Romanian while doing those jobs as you will likely be the only Dutch person there.
  - m000 9mo ago
    "Any job you can do is eligible" is highly inaccurate. I went through this after my PhD funding in NL ran out, which is considered a layoff. I only had to demonstrate that I made some applications to relevant jobs. No pressure whatsoever to go work in some unrelated job. Yes, the UWV [1] unemployment benefits are not perpetual (I don't recall the exact formula used to calculate the eligibility length). But even after your unemployment benefits stop, depending on the level of your savings, you may be eligible for receiving other benefits (e.g. health insurance and rent). Overall, it is a very pro-worker system, with the major benefit of it being not "free money" (as US readers may assume), but the decreased leverage your employer has over you. [1] https://www.uwv.nl/nl https://www.uwv.nl/nl

by retired 9mo ago

joe_mamba 9mo ago

That's pretty generous, even for EU standards. In Austria for example, unconditional unemployment is 60% of your income and only lasting for a dozen or so weeks, after which you are forced to accept any job offer thrown at you or risk having your unemployment taken away.

retired 9mo ago
Unemployment benefits is something you build up during your career, not just your current employer. For each year in employment you get one month of unemployment. The limit is 24 months. And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months.
- joe_mamba 9mo ago
  >And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months. I think that heavily depends. If they're just a laid off manager without a strong network or industry connections at other major semi companies, then they might be shit out of luck since in the current economy, there's little to no demand for companies to hire more management. On the contrary, many companies now are laying of their own managers too and not hiring new ones. If they need management tasks they tend to give them to existing IC staff instead of hiring dedicated managers from outside, which IMHO might be a good thing.
- portly 9mo ago
  The current job market for managers does not look great since Elon let that sink in.
- consp 9mo ago
  That changed in 2016 to 0.5 months per year.
  - retired 9mo ago
    After the first ten years of employment. You also have CAOs (collective labour agreement) that are more favourable. It all depends on your work history, what CAOs you worked under and when you started work.

Freak_NL 9mo ago

> Unemployment benefits are unconditional until you find a new job. They are quite conditional: you must be applying for a new job while receiving them, and after the first six months any job you can do is eligible (not just the jobs you would want to do). You must report your job applications to the unemployment agency, and you can get called in and cut off from benefits for not earnestly seeking a job.

retired 9mo ago
That is what I meant with “until you find a new job”. You must indeed be actively looking for a job. But they are unconditional in that they are not means tested or have other clauses that could cause you to not get paid. You do not have to eat your savings, house or car. You are allowed to keep those.
cbolton 9mo ago
I'm curious how that works in the extreme... Isn't prostitution legal in the Netherlands? A brothel can offer you a job and you have to accept?
- retired 9mo ago
  I doubt that you will end up in the red light district but it’s possible that a middle management position will end up in an Amazon distribution center as an order picker or has to harvest strawberries. Not that bad and you might learn some Polish or Romanian while doing those jobs as you will likely be the only Dutch person there.
- m000 9mo ago
  "Any job you can do is eligible" is highly inaccurate. I went through this after my PhD funding in NL ran out, which is considered a layoff. I only had to demonstrate that I made some applications to relevant jobs. No pressure whatsoever to go work in some unrelated job. Yes, the UWV [1] unemployment benefits are not perpetual (I don't recall the exact formula used to calculate the eligibility length). But even after your unemployment benefits stop, depending on the level of your savings, you may be eligible for receiving other benefits (e.g. health insurance and rent). Overall, it is a very pro-worker system, with the major benefit of it being not "free money" (as US readers may assume), but the decreased leverage your employer has over you. [1] https://www.uwv.nl/nl https://www.uwv.nl/nl