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> Protesting is absolutely something you can and should be able to do casually Then you are going to be identified and your conversations monitored. This is p
by themafia 9mo ago
> Protesting is absolutely something you can and should be able to do casually
Then you are going to be identified and your conversations monitored. This is precisely the outcome the article is complaining about. I find that expectation absurd.
> of a self-governing people
This describes the majority not the individual.
> and petition the government
There is no expectation or statement that your anonymity will be protected. The entire idea of a "petition" immediately defies this.
> to prevent the enforcement of law.
How does "tracking ICE" _prevent_ the enforcement of the law? Your views on the first amendment suddenly became quite narrow.
- account42 9mo ago> How does "tracking ICE" _prevent_ the enforcement of the law? Your views on the first amendment suddenly became quite narrow. Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law.
- fc417fc802 9mo ago> It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law. I expect the vast majority of government abuses in recent history the world over have to at least some degree followed the law according to those carrying out the acts. Thus it is almost to be expected that as a situation escalates those crying foul might occasionally find themselves opposing the rule of law as described by those in power. To state it plainly, not all "rule of law" is subjectively equal.
- dTal 9mo agoRule of law? Innocent people are being shot.
- account42 9mo agoWile I don't think they deserved to loose their lives over it, calling them "innocent" is quite dishonest. They were at the very least intentionally being a nuisance and in most cases breaking actual laws in the process.
- kdkirsch 9mo agoSo now being a nuisance is justification for summary extrajudicial executions?! If people on HN believe this then we’re toast.
- zahlman 9mo agoThat is not at all the argument being made.
- JumpCrisscross 9mo ago> They were at the very least intentionally being a nuisance and in most cases breaking actual laws in the process Pretti was breaking zero laws. You’d have to do some prosecutorial voodoo to conjure up a misdemeanor. There is lawbreaking in that videos. But the felony-level stuff is all from folks in uniform. (Which, thankfully, they’ve started wearing.)
- zahlman 9mo ago[flagged]
- maxehmookau 9mo agoBeing a nuisance is not illegal. In the eyes of the law, someone being a nuisance is, indeed, innocent - and to say so is not dishonest.
- mexicocitinluez 9mo ago> calling them "innocent" is quite dishonest You're not actually arguing that American citizens shouldn't be able to film the cops are you? That would be pretty un-American.
- zahlman 9mo ago[flagged]
- 9mo ago
- VBprogrammer 9mo agoLaw enforcement only works when the people have trust in those doing the enforcement. ICE have lost the trust of a significant portion of the people in Minnesota because they are using unreasonable force, eroding constitutionally protected rights and behaving with impunity. They are, in reality, just conducting a politically motivated campaign of harassment. If they truly wanted to deport as many people as possible they'd start with border states like Florida and Texas, places with 20x more undocumented immigrants.
- NickC25 9mo agoOr, get this - they'd go after the people who employ illegal immigrants en masse in those states. Illegal immigrants aren't a thing at any meaningful scale if there aren't people willing to hire them. But since a lot of those businesses that hire illegally or "look the other way" are BIG republican donors in deep red states....we can't do anything about it. We should have made e-verify the federal minimum standard for ALL employment as far back as 1985. We had the tech and the ability. Y'all honestly think Donald Trump hires blue-blooded WASPs to mow the lawns at his golf courses?
- quickthrowman 9mo ago> Or, get this - they'd go after the people who employ illegal immigrants en masse in those states. This is not economically feasible, the cost of food would double or more. They know that and I know that. That’s why they aren’t actually targeting illegal immigrants, America’s dirty secret is that we need them to keep prices low on certain things. Good luck finding Americans that will pick strawberries or work in a meatpacking plant for $12-16/hr
- NickC25 9mo agoWe have things called subsidies for that reason. Agribusiness companies of all sizes including megacorps get tons of money in subsides for this sort of situation. Unfortunately, those subsidies go towards purchasing lobbyists, growing profit margins, and paying executives instead of lowering food costs to Americans. And yes, it absolutely is feasible, and we all know it. It's just if it happened, some very wealthy and influential people would lose a bit of money and influence - we can't have that now can we?
- direwolf20 9mo agoWhich law makes it illegal to track ICE? If there isn't a law against it, but you think the government should arrest people for it anyway, then you don't support rule of law.
- VBprogrammer 9mo agoThe obvious retort is "obstruction". Of course it doesn't hold up to scrutiny because courts have consistently held that obstruction has to be a physical act. Simply being nearby, filming or calling them names doesn't count.
- zahlman 9mo ago[flagged]
- direwolf20 9mo agoChange of subject. This discussion is about tracking them.
- VBprogrammer 9mo agoAnd yet without the video evidence provided by other protestors you'd still be spouting the line that Alex Pretti was brandishing his gun.
- esseph 9mo agoSeems like a true believer in what is happening.
- mothballed 9mo agoIs kicking out tail lights and spitting at agents obstruction?[] Because he definitely appears to have done that about a week before his death. Though that doesn't merit death. [] https://youtu.be/p2TRbFmutrw?t=1023 https://youtu.be/p2TRbFmutrw?t=1023
- florkbork 9mo agoNonsense. ICE are engaging in violence, warrantless forced entry to homes, at least two shootings that border on murder, they even tried to force entry into an Ecuadorian embassy. They are detaining citizens at random, relocating them physically and in some cases releasing them; if they don't die in detention due to lack of access to medical care. If you cannot see how these activities should be observed, documented, protested whilst still standing for professed Amercian values... Edit: Ah excellent, downvotes without reply because facts are... uncomfortable! Here's the sources: https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-agents-blocked-from-attempting-to-enter-ecuadorian-consulate-in-minneapolis-without-permission/ https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-agents-blocked-from-... - Ecuadorian consulate. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-forced-open-the-door-to-his-minnesota-home-and-removed-him-in-his-underwear-after-a-warrantless-search https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-f... - warrantless entry https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-... - many, many US citizens detained only for charges to vanish at the merest scrutiny https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/27/five-year-old-girl-us-citizen-and-mother-deported-honduras https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/27/five-year-ol... - deporting citizens https://newrepublic.com/post/205458/ice-detainees-pay-for-medical-care https://newrepublic.com/post/205458/ice-detainees-pay-for-me... - cutting off medical care https://abcnews.go.com/US/detainees-heard-cuban-man-slammed-ground-death-ice/story?id=129602443 https://abcnews.go.com/US/detainees-heard-cuban-man-slammed-... - deaths in custody
- cogman10 9mo ago> Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. Seems completely reasonable given ICE is murdering, arresting, and deporting citizens and legal residents. The government wronging 1 person to rightfully enforce the law on 10 is unacceptable.
- AppleAtCha 9mo agoIANAL but I don't think it's so cut and dried that creating a crowdsourced map of publicly visible ice operations is illegal. Yes such a map could be used by illegal immigrants to avoid detention. It could also be used by law abiding citizens that want to avoid the hubbub these operations cause or by legal us citizens that don't wanna be targeted just for being in the neighborhood. It seems like a decent lawyer could make a case that publishing the location of an ice operation is not the same as acting with intent to interfere with the operation.
- nobody9999 9mo ago>Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law. By your logic, combined with the actions of the ICE folks in Minneapolis, anyone who submits the location of a DUI checkpoint into Waze[0] should be summarily executed? Is that your argument? ICE has murdered people for documenting their locations and actions which, by your statement was to allow others to "dodge" law enforcement. Documenting a DUI checkpoint does exactly the same thing. So. If your position is that law "enforcement" is allowed to summarily shoot to death folks who document their actions and locations in one context, then they should be allowed to do so in other, more serious contexts like DUI checkpoints. Is that your claim? If not, please do provide some nuance around what you said, because that's how I understood your statements. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waze