5 ms·

Do you mean just technically trivial? I agree with that. If you mean more broadly trivial, I see that quite differently. An administration that has repeatedly

by glaugh 8mo ago

Do you mean just technically trivial? I agree with that. If you mean more broadly trivial, I see that quite differently. An administration that has repeatedly abused its power in order to intimidate and punish political opponents is opening an investigation into grassroots political opponents. That feels worth being concerned about.

deleted 8mo ago
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thegreatpeter 8mo ago
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arrozconcosas 8mo ago
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- giardini 8mo ago
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  - CursedSilicon 8mo ago
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- giardini 8mo ago
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nlitened 8mo ago
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fc417fc802 8mo ago
The FBI infiltrating political groups of all stripes is to be assumed by default at this point. A particularly high profile example would be the plot to kidnap a state governor a few years ago. As to actually acting on what they learn, within this context yeah that would be troubling.
- boppo1 8mo ago
  >particularly high profile example would be the plot to kidnap a state governor a few years ago. iirc that was something more than infiltration. The FBI found an extremist loser who lived in a basement, egged him on, helped him network & gave him resources. Without them, he probably would have been thinking really hard about it, not much more.
  - MSFT_Edging 8mo ago
    That's basically the FBI's MO. https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politics/aby-rayyan-fbi-terror-sting-pizza-man https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politics/aby-rayyan-fbi-terro...
  - bell-cot 8mo ago
    Munger's Law - Agents know they'll never get recognition or promotions by rounding up hothead wannabes.
- pydry 8mo ago
  They've been doing it from day 1. It's how they found about Martin Luther King's affairs and what led them to write him a letter telling him to kill himself.
  - paulddraper 8mo ago
    I’m not sure how that’s in any way the same thing.
- bartread 8mo ago
  > As to actually acting on what they learn, within this context yeah that would be troubling. Given FBI Director Kash Patel is a Trump appointee, and I might even go so far as to say a Trump stooge, I think we have to assume that that is exactly what will happen.
- 0928374082 8mo ago
  > The FBI infiltrating political groups of all stripes is to be assumed by default at this point. That (US domestic political groups, anyway) is their job, after all?
brightball 8mo ago
I don’t like political power being used to go after an intimidate opponents at all, but we can’t pretend that it wasn’t a constant during the previous admin. If I recall correctly, they actually set the precedent here by adding civil war era conspiracy charges to put an additional 10 years on women who protested in front of an abortion clinic. AI summary… > Six of the protesters (including Heather Idoni) were convicted in January 2024 of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act—a misdemeanor carrying up to one year in prison—and felony conspiracy against rights under 18 U.S.C. § 241, which carries a maximum of 10 years. The conspiracy charge stemmed from evidence that the group planned and coordinated the blockade in advance to interfere with clinic operations.
- idiotsecant 8mo ago
  'protested' by forcibly precenting individual civilians access to medical care? Sure, this seems the same.
  - brightball 8mo ago
    It is deliberately obtuse to pretend that a group 60 year old women were "forcibly" preventing anyone from doing anything. They stood in a hallway and sang hymns. Is it a violation of the FACE act? Absolutely. Conspiracy? If that's a conspiracy then virtually any protest that involves any planning whatsoever could also be twisted into a conspiracy.
    - lynx97 8mo ago
      [flagged]
    - grayhatter 8mo ago
      > Conspiracy? If that's a conspiracy then virtually any protest that involves any planning whatsoever could also be twisted into a conspiracy. Yes, that's what a conspiracy is. In other news, the sky is blue. Conspiracy, to conspire. Conspire, to make plans, usually in secret. The reason conspiracy is a more serious crime is because it's worse; it's one thing to go to a protest with a bunch of friends, and then decide in the heat of the moment, when everyone's emotions are raging, I don't wanna leave yet. It's completely different crime to decide before the protest starts, in a secret group with a bunch a friends. There's nothing they can do to make you leave. And when the cops show up, and when they say you have to leave you're gonna throw a frozen water bottle at them. In this case, they planned to actively stop someone from receiving the medical care. Do you feel that's reasonable? Should I get to decide what medical care I think you should have? Only on days I'm free to go out and protest, obviously. Somewhat related, after reading florkbork's post, I'm excited to hear your reply about if you think crushing someone's hand in the door counts as protesting?
nailer 8mo ago
> grassroots political opponents Organised criminal activity. Edit: I’m not complaining about moderation but it would be fascinating to know what part of this others believe is incorrect: - Do you think the Anti ICE groups are not organised? - Do you think obstructing federal officers is not criminal? - Something else.
- QuercusMax 8mo ago
  Preventing out-of-control federal officers from committing crimes is NOT criminal. Especially when you don't even know if they ARE federal officers, and won't show their faces, badges, or warrants.
  - nailer 8mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46798601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46798601
    - Aushin 8mo ago
      I care more about reining in the overweight GEDstapo agents murdering people in the street than people blowing whistles at them.
    - QuercusMax 8mo ago
      Do you agree with the ICE agent who said "You raise your voice, we erase your voice?" Is that an acceptable thing for federal officers to do, or is that unconstitutional, criminal violation of civil rights?
      - zahlman 8mo ago
        > the ICE agent who said "You raise your voice, we erase your voice?" What are you even talking about?
        QuercusMax 8mo ago
whatsupdog 8mo ago
> "An administration that has repeatedly abused its power in order to intimidate and punish political opponents" Are you referring to how a Democratic party AG's entire campaign was to "pursue Donald Trump". And then she found a victimless "crime", that every real estate developer is guilty of, in which nobody was harmed, and the banks were equally guilty, for which the statute of limitations has expired, to get her 34 felonies just to throw the ex president in jail and to stop him from running again?
- aaronmdjones 8mo ago
  > just to throw the ex president in jail and to stop him from running again? Being convicted of a crime does not stop you from running for president. Being in prison also does not stop you from running for president -- one person has. The only qualifications necessary to run for president are to be a natural born citizen, have spent the last 14 years living in the country, and be at least 35 years of age. Also, the criminal trial against him started after he assumed office for the second time. EDIT: Got my years mixed up. Ignore that last bit.
  - whatsupdog 8mo ago
    > Also, the criminal trial against him started after he assumed office for the second time Nope. He was convicted even before the election started.
- infinitezest 8mo ago
  Maybe that was also bad. And maybe the current admin is still more brazen, less accountable, more selfish and more vindictive. Why even bring this up? Should we not care about this because other people did bad stuff?
  - whatsupdog 8mo ago
    When you let the cat out of the box yourself, don't blame when it starts scratching the couch. Never in history was ever an American ex-president targeted and hounded like Trump was. Democratic party brought the 3rd world style politics of "go after your opponents when you come to power" to the USA.

by glaugh 8mo ago

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

thegreatpeter 8mo ago

[flagged]

arrozconcosas 8mo ago

[flagged]

giardini 8mo ago
[flagged]
- CursedSilicon 8mo ago
  [flagged]
giardini 8mo ago
[flagged]

nlitened 8mo ago

[flagged]

fc417fc802 8mo ago

The FBI infiltrating political groups of all stripes is to be assumed by default at this point. A particularly high profile example would be the plot to kidnap a state governor a few years ago. As to actually acting on what they learn, within this context yeah that would be troubling.

boppo1 8mo ago
>particularly high profile example would be the plot to kidnap a state governor a few years ago. iirc that was something more than infiltration. The FBI found an extremist loser who lived in a basement, egged him on, helped him network & gave him resources. Without them, he probably would have been thinking really hard about it, not much more.
- MSFT_Edging 8mo ago
  That's basically the FBI's MO. https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politics/aby-rayyan-fbi-terror-sting-pizza-man https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politics/aby-rayyan-fbi-terro...
- bell-cot 8mo ago
  Munger's Law - Agents know they'll never get recognition or promotions by rounding up hothead wannabes.
pydry 8mo ago
They've been doing it from day 1. It's how they found about Martin Luther King's affairs and what led them to write him a letter telling him to kill himself.
- paulddraper 8mo ago
  I’m not sure how that’s in any way the same thing.
bartread 8mo ago
> As to actually acting on what they learn, within this context yeah that would be troubling. Given FBI Director Kash Patel is a Trump appointee, and I might even go so far as to say a Trump stooge, I think we have to assume that that is exactly what will happen.
0928374082 8mo ago
> The FBI infiltrating political groups of all stripes is to be assumed by default at this point. That (US domestic political groups, anyway) is their job, after all?

brightball 8mo ago

I don’t like political power being used to go after an intimidate opponents at all, but we can’t pretend that it wasn’t a constant during the previous admin. If I recall correctly, they actually set the precedent here by adding civil war era conspiracy charges to put an additional 10 years on women who protested in front of an abortion clinic. AI summary… > Six of the protesters (including Heather Idoni) were convicted in January 2024 of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act—a misdemeanor carrying up to one year in prison—and felony conspiracy against rights under 18 U.S.C. § 241, which carries a maximum of 10 years. The conspiracy charge stemmed from evidence that the group planned and coordinated the blockade in advance to interfere with clinic operations.

idiotsecant 8mo ago
'protested' by forcibly precenting individual civilians access to medical care? Sure, this seems the same.
- brightball 8mo ago
  It is deliberately obtuse to pretend that a group 60 year old women were "forcibly" preventing anyone from doing anything. They stood in a hallway and sang hymns. Is it a violation of the FACE act? Absolutely. Conspiracy? If that's a conspiracy then virtually any protest that involves any planning whatsoever could also be twisted into a conspiracy.
  - lynx97 8mo ago
    [flagged]
  - grayhatter 8mo ago
    > Conspiracy? If that's a conspiracy then virtually any protest that involves any planning whatsoever could also be twisted into a conspiracy. Yes, that's what a conspiracy is. In other news, the sky is blue. Conspiracy, to conspire. Conspire, to make plans, usually in secret. The reason conspiracy is a more serious crime is because it's worse; it's one thing to go to a protest with a bunch of friends, and then decide in the heat of the moment, when everyone's emotions are raging, I don't wanna leave yet. It's completely different crime to decide before the protest starts, in a secret group with a bunch a friends. There's nothing they can do to make you leave. And when the cops show up, and when they say you have to leave you're gonna throw a frozen water bottle at them. In this case, they planned to actively stop someone from receiving the medical care. Do you feel that's reasonable? Should I get to decide what medical care I think you should have? Only on days I'm free to go out and protest, obviously. Somewhat related, after reading florkbork's post, I'm excited to hear your reply about if you think crushing someone's hand in the door counts as protesting?

nailer 8mo ago

> grassroots political opponents Organised criminal activity. Edit: I’m not complaining about moderation but it would be fascinating to know what part of this others believe is incorrect: - Do you think the Anti ICE groups are not organised? - Do you think obstructing federal officers is not criminal? - Something else.

QuercusMax 8mo ago
Preventing out-of-control federal officers from committing crimes is NOT criminal. Especially when you don't even know if they ARE federal officers, and won't show their faces, badges, or warrants.
- nailer 8mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46798601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46798601
  - Aushin 8mo ago
    I care more about reining in the overweight GEDstapo agents murdering people in the street than people blowing whistles at them.
  - QuercusMax 8mo ago
    Do you agree with the ICE agent who said "You raise your voice, we erase your voice?" Is that an acceptable thing for federal officers to do, or is that unconstitutional, criminal violation of civil rights?
    - zahlman 8mo ago
      > the ICE agent who said "You raise your voice, we erase your voice?" What are you even talking about?
      - QuercusMax 8mo ago

whatsupdog 8mo ago

> "An administration that has repeatedly abused its power in order to intimidate and punish political opponents" Are you referring to how a Democratic party AG's entire campaign was to "pursue Donald Trump". And then she found a victimless "crime", that every real estate developer is guilty of, in which nobody was harmed, and the banks were equally guilty, for which the statute of limitations has expired, to get her 34 felonies just to throw the ex president in jail and to stop him from running again?

aaronmdjones 8mo ago
> just to throw the ex president in jail and to stop him from running again? Being convicted of a crime does not stop you from running for president. Being in prison also does not stop you from running for president -- one person has. The only qualifications necessary to run for president are to be a natural born citizen, have spent the last 14 years living in the country, and be at least 35 years of age. Also, the criminal trial against him started after he assumed office for the second time. EDIT: Got my years mixed up. Ignore that last bit.
- whatsupdog 8mo ago
  > Also, the criminal trial against him started after he assumed office for the second time Nope. He was convicted even before the election started.
infinitezest 8mo ago
Maybe that was also bad. And maybe the current admin is still more brazen, less accountable, more selfish and more vindictive. Why even bring this up? Should we not care about this because other people did bad stuff?
- whatsupdog 8mo ago
  When you let the cat out of the box yourself, don't blame when it starts scratching the couch. Never in history was ever an American ex-president targeted and hounded like Trump was. Democratic party brought the 3rd world style politics of "go after your opponents when you come to power" to the USA.