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And what would you do with thieves, people who destroy property, hunters who kill animals illegally, and a million other non-violent categories that get jailed?

by rorrr 14y ago

vidarh 14y ago
Community service. Fines. Putting them in prison only delays re-offending. Treatment outside prison is generally more likely to prevent them from committing further crimes. I might not want to go quite as far as ekianjo, but prison is in general horrible for rehabilitation. I'm Norwegian. The Norwegian prison system has a far better rehabilitation rate than most, and this to a large extent has followed a gradual softening up of the prison system from one that was every bit as inhumane as the US system, but is now regularly described as "holiday camp". Imprisonment is used far less, and the tendency is to reduce it further. For those who do end up in prison, sentences are generally far shorter, coupled with education and work (you can choose, but you need to do one or the other) in prison. Prisoners often get granted early limited parole (you can start getting weekends out of prison etc. long before a full parole, or monitored time outside the prison - e.g. a famous convicted murderer was recently interviewed at a cafe while she was out on parole, accompanied by a police officer...). The result is a system that fits far better with the reality of the psychological effects one would presumably want a criminal justice system that cares about rehabilitation to have on a prisoner. A large part of the problem with most prison systems is that they are based on emotions and demands for vengeance rather than an evidence based approach to actually minimizing harm to society. Sweden has similar success with rehabilitation, though Sweden and Norway also unfortunately shares similar flaws to Sweden when it comes to pre-conviction detention.
- TheAmazingIdiot 14y ago
  As I said before, I live in what we would call the "Bible Belt" within the USA: Indiana. I've read about, as well watched a few documentaries about Norway's penal system. It's humane and treats people as punished- but still people trying to do better. I remember discussion of a prison 'island' in which prisoners set up a village there. You had a job to learn a trade, and/or get schooling where they were lacking. You had people of all sorts of crimes around, many a time with heavy machinery. Yet one thing was certain: if you treat people like animals, they shall act like it. This 'experiment' proved the opposite: treat them like civilized humans who at one time erred, and they will act like civilized humans. But I live in Indiana. Even despite the restriction of making laws towards or against another religion, this state makes rules that are undoubtedly "Christian". This type of "Christian" however, is bloodthirsty, vindictive, bigoted, and hypocritical. Christians speak of forgiveness, yet are the first here to demand payback and retribution. We have scads of politicians who denounce decent sentencing, and instead attack other politicians for being "Soft on crime". I honestly cannot see when our state (let alone the country) will regain sanity about prison and rehabilitation. It really is that bad.
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  It would be nice if people in the US cared about rehabilitation. Unfortunately, it just seems to be justice they (mostly) care about (and by justice, I mean vengeance and/or punishment). And our political parties are so screwed up right now that trying to do anything about it would be a death sentence to a politician's career.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ekianjo 14y ago
Imprisonment is the privation of your liberty/freedom. This is the ultimate recourse of the Law and should not be used for any reason. When you are in a punitive system, prison is applied as a way to punish people from their wrongdoings, no matter what. When you are in a "reparation" kind of system, there is almost no need for prison as long as the offender is made to pay back/repair for the property he destroyed (with interests). That can be done without the loss of someone's freedom to move and do what they like. The exception I mentioned is for those who are of immediate danger to others if put back in the streets. Prison can, in these particular cases, be an efficient way to remove the threat by excluding these people from society, but I think we would agree that this would be a very small minority of the currently imprisoned population.

And what would you do with thieves, people who destroy property, hunters who kill animals illegally, and a million other non-violent categories that get jailed?

by rorrr 14y ago

And what would you do with thieves, people who destroy property, hunters who kill animals illegally, and a million other non-violent categories that get jailed?

vidarh 14y ago

Community service. Fines. Putting them in prison only delays re-offending. Treatment outside prison is generally more likely to prevent them from committing further crimes. I might not want to go quite as far as ekianjo, but prison is in general horrible for rehabilitation. I'm Norwegian. The Norwegian prison system has a far better rehabilitation rate than most, and this to a large extent has followed a gradual softening up of the prison system from one that was every bit as inhumane as the US system, but is now regularly described as "holiday camp". Imprisonment is used far less, and the tendency is to reduce it further. For those who do end up in prison, sentences are generally far shorter, coupled with education and work (you can choose, but you need to do one or the other) in prison. Prisoners often get granted early limited parole (you can start getting weekends out of prison etc. long before a full parole, or monitored time outside the prison - e.g. a famous convicted murderer was recently interviewed at a cafe while she was out on parole, accompanied by a police officer...). The result is a system that fits far better with the reality of the psychological effects one would presumably want a criminal justice system that cares about rehabilitation to have on a prisoner. A large part of the problem with most prison systems is that they are based on emotions and demands for vengeance rather than an evidence based approach to actually minimizing harm to society. Sweden has similar success with rehabilitation, though Sweden and Norway also unfortunately shares similar flaws to Sweden when it comes to pre-conviction detention.

TheAmazingIdiot 14y ago
As I said before, I live in what we would call the "Bible Belt" within the USA: Indiana. I've read about, as well watched a few documentaries about Norway's penal system. It's humane and treats people as punished- but still people trying to do better. I remember discussion of a prison 'island' in which prisoners set up a village there. You had a job to learn a trade, and/or get schooling where they were lacking. You had people of all sorts of crimes around, many a time with heavy machinery. Yet one thing was certain: if you treat people like animals, they shall act like it. This 'experiment' proved the opposite: treat them like civilized humans who at one time erred, and they will act like civilized humans. But I live in Indiana. Even despite the restriction of making laws towards or against another religion, this state makes rules that are undoubtedly "Christian". This type of "Christian" however, is bloodthirsty, vindictive, bigoted, and hypocritical. Christians speak of forgiveness, yet are the first here to demand payback and retribution. We have scads of politicians who denounce decent sentencing, and instead attack other politicians for being "Soft on crime". I honestly cannot see when our state (let alone the country) will regain sanity about prison and rehabilitation. It really is that bad.
SoftwareMaven 14y ago
It would be nice if people in the US cared about rehabilitation. Unfortunately, it just seems to be justice they (mostly) care about (and by justice, I mean vengeance and/or punishment). And our political parties are so screwed up right now that trying to do anything about it would be a death sentence to a politician's career.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ekianjo 14y ago

Imprisonment is the privation of your liberty/freedom. This is the ultimate recourse of the Law and should not be used for any reason. When you are in a punitive system, prison is applied as a way to punish people from their wrongdoings, no matter what. When you are in a "reparation" kind of system, there is almost no need for prison as long as the offender is made to pay back/repair for the property he destroyed (with interests). That can be done without the loss of someone's freedom to move and do what they like. The exception I mentioned is for those who are of immediate danger to others if put back in the streets. Prison can, in these particular cases, be an efficient way to remove the threat by excluding these people from society, but I think we would agree that this would be a very small minority of the currently imprisoned population.