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I suspect they're going to find it challenging to turn protected speech into something prosecutable like obstruction - assuming activists exercise even a modicu

I suspect they're going to find it challenging to turn protected speech into something prosecutable like obstruction - assuming activists exercise even a modicum of care in their wording. Seems like just another intimidation tactic but in doing that, they've also given a heads-up to their targets.

nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
Considering ICE is executing people in the streets and were already breaking laws before this something little like free speech won’t help
- jatora 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - germinalphrase 9mo ago
    Your causality is reversed. The dude was literally just standing there on a public sidewalk with his hands up. He never initiated the altercation or otherwise impeded any lawful investigation. The agent chose to initiate the altercation during which the victim was pepper sprayed, pinned to the ground by six people, disarmed, and then shot ten times.
    - zahlman 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - DangitBobby 9mo ago
        Not what happened.
        zahlman 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        jacquesm 9mo ago
        This character has spent a few thousand words now on this and holds fast in spite of all the contrary evidence, at some point you have to wonder what is going on but I'm happy it's not my problem. He just won't stop, just keeps on digging. Check comment history if you won't believe me it is about as wild as it gets on HN.
        zahlman 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        jatora 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        zahlman 9mo ago
        Because I was baselessly accused of lying, here's one video taken from the sidewalk (there are probably more copies of this with more views, but it's what came up in my search): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKsWCDbnMW4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKsWCDbnMW4 The man coming into frame at :09 is Pretti. As can clearly be seen a few frames later, he is already on the road at this point and walking towards the middle of the road. By :14, as the camera backs up, we can see that the crack in the road he straddled right after coming into frame was in fact in the main traffic lane, not the lane with the stopped white car. (I do not say "parked" because there appears to be a woman sitting behind the wheel who might have the intent to leave, but for the altercation in front of her.) At :22 the camera turns back to Pretti (whose location could be inferred in the interim from his shadow) and he is standing over the median. From :26 he can be seen making hand gestures, either to direct traffic or otherwise communicate with drivers, such as the one coming into frame and honking a horn. The fact that the horn is honked implies that the driver perceives Pretti as being in the way, and at :28 we can see that car swerve slightly to accommodate him. At :35, as the officer pushes a woman while they are both in front of the stopped car, Pretti is still also in the road. He can then be seen approaching the officer and physically interposing himself between the officer and the woman, and raising an arm to block the officer. He is at this point on the road shoulder, not the sidewalk. As he helps the woman up, both of them get sprayed; at :42 he again physically interposes, as if to shield the woman. He is then pulled up (and presumably already under arrest) and eventually separated from the woman, which he clearly physically resists; then he resists the officers who attempt to wrestle him to the ground. This "ground" is squarely in front of the stopped car. There is an extended scuffle; it takes until :59 for him to be disarmed (although it doesn't appear that any other officer would be able to see that this has happened), and the first gunshot is audible at 1:02. Regardless of any mitigating factors in Pretti's conduct, or reasons why the shoot would be unlawful (and I have now seen analyses by many lawyers that appear very well reasoned, and there is much less consensus among them than there was in the Good case), the video inarguably shows all the things I claimed: * He was in the street the entire time. * He was physically attempting (and mostly successful) to get in between the officer and the woman. * Because the woman is still in the street, and her interaction with the officer didn't start there (as seen in other video) it is entirely plausible that the officer intends to arrest her for obstruction.
  - nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - zahlman 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - DangitBobby 9mo ago
        Congrats on being able to recount the official version of events.
        zahlman 9mo ago
        I am recounting the events that I personally witnessed on video from multiple angles and which can clearly be seen by any impartial viewer. If you think anything I said is untrue, quote it, and provide actual evidence of it being untrue. I also did not violate HN guidelines in my comment and it should not have been flagged.
        DangitBobby 9mo ago
        I agree and didn't flag you
        nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
        Why is it so important for you to defend government killing citizens? Let’s say they broke the law, neither did anything that would deserve a death penalty much less instant execution by some racist coward wearing a mask.
    - jatora 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
        She was stopped by the ICE pigs and the pig who was “in front” literally walked in front of the car and wouldn’t have been in the way even had she driven off as he was on her front left and she had her wheels turned all the way to right. Only one having bad faith are you MAGA clowns
elicash 9mo ago
For all the complaints about the previous DOJ, one thing nobody ever argued was that they weren't intending to get convictions. They only brought cases they thought they could win. To see DOJ use its power the way we've seen (and I know the original story here is only with FBI at this point), it makes me think there should be some equivalent of anti-SLAPP laws but aimed at federal prosecutions. Some way to fast track baseless charges that will obviously never result in anything and that are just meant to either (a) punish someone into paying a ton of lawyer fees, (b) to intimidate others, or (c) grab some short-term headlines.

nextlevelwizard 9mo ago

Considering ICE is executing people in the streets and were already breaking laws before this something little like free speech won’t help

jatora 9mo ago
[flagged]
- germinalphrase 9mo ago
  Your causality is reversed. The dude was literally just standing there on a public sidewalk with his hands up. He never initiated the altercation or otherwise impeded any lawful investigation. The agent chose to initiate the altercation during which the victim was pepper sprayed, pinned to the ground by six people, disarmed, and then shot ten times.
  - zahlman 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - DangitBobby 9mo ago
      Not what happened.
      - zahlman 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        jacquesm 9mo ago
        This character has spent a few thousand words now on this and holds fast in spite of all the contrary evidence, at some point you have to wonder what is going on but I'm happy it's not my problem. He just won't stop, just keeps on digging. Check comment history if you won't believe me it is about as wild as it gets on HN.
        zahlman 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        jatora 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        zahlman 9mo ago
        Because I was baselessly accused of lying, here's one video taken from the sidewalk (there are probably more copies of this with more views, but it's what came up in my search): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKsWCDbnMW4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKsWCDbnMW4 The man coming into frame at :09 is Pretti. As can clearly be seen a few frames later, he is already on the road at this point and walking towards the middle of the road. By :14, as the camera backs up, we can see that the crack in the road he straddled right after coming into frame was in fact in the main traffic lane, not the lane with the stopped white car. (I do not say "parked" because there appears to be a woman sitting behind the wheel who might have the intent to leave, but for the altercation in front of her.) At :22 the camera turns back to Pretti (whose location could be inferred in the interim from his shadow) and he is standing over the median. From :26 he can be seen making hand gestures, either to direct traffic or otherwise communicate with drivers, such as the one coming into frame and honking a horn. The fact that the horn is honked implies that the driver perceives Pretti as being in the way, and at :28 we can see that car swerve slightly to accommodate him. At :35, as the officer pushes a woman while they are both in front of the stopped car, Pretti is still also in the road. He can then be seen approaching the officer and physically interposing himself between the officer and the woman, and raising an arm to block the officer. He is at this point on the road shoulder, not the sidewalk. As he helps the woman up, both of them get sprayed; at :42 he again physically interposes, as if to shield the woman. He is then pulled up (and presumably already under arrest) and eventually separated from the woman, which he clearly physically resists; then he resists the officers who attempt to wrestle him to the ground. This "ground" is squarely in front of the stopped car. There is an extended scuffle; it takes until :59 for him to be disarmed (although it doesn't appear that any other officer would be able to see that this has happened), and the first gunshot is audible at 1:02. Regardless of any mitigating factors in Pretti's conduct, or reasons why the shoot would be unlawful (and I have now seen analyses by many lawyers that appear very well reasoned, and there is much less consensus among them than there was in the Good case), the video inarguably shows all the things I claimed: * He was in the street the entire time. * He was physically attempting (and mostly successful) to get in between the officer and the woman. * Because the woman is still in the street, and her interaction with the officer didn't start there (as seen in other video) it is entirely plausible that the officer intends to arrest her for obstruction.
- nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - zahlman 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - DangitBobby 9mo ago
      Congrats on being able to recount the official version of events.
      - zahlman 9mo ago
        I am recounting the events that I personally witnessed on video from multiple angles and which can clearly be seen by any impartial viewer. If you think anything I said is untrue, quote it, and provide actual evidence of it being untrue. I also did not violate HN guidelines in my comment and it should not have been flagged.
        DangitBobby 9mo ago
        I agree and didn't flag you
        nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
        Why is it so important for you to defend government killing citizens? Let’s say they broke the law, neither did anything that would deserve a death penalty much less instant execution by some racist coward wearing a mask.
  - jatora 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - nextlevelwizard 9mo ago
      She was stopped by the ICE pigs and the pig who was “in front” literally walked in front of the car and wouldn’t have been in the way even had she driven off as he was on her front left and she had her wheels turned all the way to right. Only one having bad faith are you MAGA clowns

elicash 9mo ago

For all the complaints about the previous DOJ, one thing nobody ever argued was that they weren't intending to get convictions. They only brought cases they thought they could win. To see DOJ use its power the way we've seen (and I know the original story here is only with FBI at this point), it makes me think there should be some equivalent of anti-SLAPP laws but aimed at federal prosecutions. Some way to fast track baseless charges that will obviously never result in anything and that are just meant to either (a) punish someone into paying a ton of lawyer fees, (b) to intimidate others, or (c) grab some short-term headlines.