8 ms·
I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.
- mythrowaway2 14y agoUsing 10px Georgia on a Web page does get one wondering..
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- bwilliams 14y agoThat's the first thing I thought as well.
- lucb1e 14y agoLucky you. On my E75 (phone) it wasn't readable at all. The RSS feed (which provided the full article with the two images on top) helped me out.
- wyclif 14y agoSeriously. Bump that font up. It's painful to read.
- potatolicious 14y agoAn exercise more people should partake in. Sometimes on HN I find it shocking just how completely clueless some of our prolific commentators are re: prejudice, whether by race, gender, creed, orientation, or anything else. The number of times I've seen people in privileged positions try to downplay, trivialize, and belittle those struggling with prejudice has made me want to quit HN more than once. Walking a mile in someone else's shoes requires some walking, not reading about it on the internet and making armchair theories. [edit] Seeing the other replies on this post is definitely way too depressing for Saturday night - a lot of loud, moralistic victim-blaming without understanding. For my own sanity I'm going to take myself out of this post entirely.
- csours 14y agoI'm a white guy, but I wear a trimmed beard and sometimes a skullcap when I'm exercising. I do get some funny looks, like people are trying to figure me out.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- gurkendoktor 14y agoI agree, and I wish we could do that, but how? I won't look half as convincing if I wrap a scarf around my head. I have thought about this after reading about Günther Wallraff[1], and I haven't found a nice way to try this out. Maybe I should "dress up" on the internet? So far, the closest experience I have is being white and understanding Chinese - but it doesn't hurt nearly as much, the worst people regularly think about me is that I am an unreliable, eternal frat boy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Günter_Wallraff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Günter_Wallraff
- wpietri 14y agoHow about a turban? You could go for a Sikh turban: http://www.sikhnet.com/pages/tyingturbans http://www.sikhnet.com/pages/tyingturbans or a Muslim one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r1_HfOMRBM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r1_HfOMRBM I'm sure you could go to a local gurdwara or mosque and ask for pointers. They'd probably be over the moon. It's also not particularly hard to look verging-on-homeless poor.
- gurkendoktor 14y agoRight, but I am white as paper and it takes a while to grow a beard. I would look like a male convert, something that (to me) seems much more exotic than a tanned person wearing a turban.
- wpietri 14y ago
- hnolable 14y agoOne aspect that is probably being confounded here is that hair plays a huge role in attractiveness. By putting on a hijab and hiding her hair this girls attractiveness (at least by western standards) probably went down a bunch of points. So part of what she may have just experienced is what it's like to be an uglier person. An interesting experiment to come up with would be to wear something that clearly indicates you are muslim but doesn't change your physical attractiveness (again by western standards).
- senthilnayagam 14y agoJust visited dubai, even Arab men cover their whole body in traditional dress like women. The whole point is dont look attractive to other people, just like abstinence. People get judged all the time. I can give you examples where I felt people judged me because of Eating with hands, drinking coffee with milk and sugar, wearing sandals instead of shoes.
- wpietri 14y agoOr she could put her hair in a hat.
- sergiotapia 14y agoSo? If I were to go to Saudi Arabia and wear jeans and a wife beater I would get looks as well. You find it strange that people look at you funny when you wear a hijab in a western country? I have a Muslim cousin and she sometimes wears a hijab to university but stopped because people would stare at her. Obviously! She stuck out like a sore thumb amidst a sea of people with no hijabs. She got tired of people asking her if she had cancer, if she was arab (lol at this one, people automatically think muslim == arab), etc.
- ceejayoz 14y agoInteresting that you think "look at you funny" and "called me a terrorist" are equivalent.
- ftwinnovations 14y agoI wonder what they would do in one of those countries that attacks and kills people at embassies or sends jihadists off to crash planes into buildings. Probably a little worse than look at you funny or call you a name.
- Evbn 14y agoIndeed. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2010/08/25/cab-driver-attacked-stabbed-new-york-muslim_n_694091.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2010/08/25/cab-drive...
- ktizo 14y agoThe USA with the UK blew up the Chinese embassy in Belgrade and George Bush called the Iraq and Afghanistan wars a crusade, which is the Christian form of the term jihad. I suspect that the high-horse you have climbed onto here is actually more of a shetland pony.
- grecy 14y agoI wonder why you choose to compare your country to "one of those countries" when you clearly indicate you think they are not as good as yours? You are like the coach of a sporting team pointing out all the teams that finished lower than yours on the ladder and saying "We did great compared to them. Good job. Keep it up." Surely, if you were actually interested in improving your team, you would point out the teams that finished above you on the ladder and say "We can do better. Here's where to improve." Somewhere along the line, America was so busy congratulating itself that it has forgotten it should be striving to do better.
- guylhem 14y agoIf wearing a hijab cause people to call you names, throw bad looks or more generally makes you feel discriminated against, what about trying not to wear an hijab?? Maybe I'm clueless and prejudiced and all that but it seems to me that religion was a perfectly "open" choice, ie something you can change at any time. Comparing that in any way to racism is insulting. People do not chose their ethnicity. People can chose their religion. Your religion makes you feel bad? Then change it since you can!!
- ceejayoz 14y agoI'm an atheist, but it's quite clear that many of my religious friends can no more easily change their religion than their ethnicity - particularly for reasons as absurd as other people holding unreasonable prejudices.
- Jach 14y agoI suspect this may just be a case of lack of religious competition in the area your friends live and work in. I grew up in Utah, so of course few people changed their religions, but Mormonism is fairly successful at converting people outside Utah. They do so best by establishing communities and inviting others to join their fun activities. Sure, in America most conversions are just to a different denomination of "Christianity", but religious conversion happens all the time. (A Pew study indicated that 44% of Americans have a different religion than the one they were raised with.)
- waterlesscloud 14y ago44%? That sounds extremely high to me. What sorts of explanation is offered for that?
- Jach 14y agoHere's a link to the survey: http://www.pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux.aspx http://www.pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux.aspx
- 14y ago
- mgkimsal 14y agoTotal western white-male stereotype-infused ignorance here but... Perhaps people avoid muslim women because we don't want them to get in to trouble. I'm surprised to see women dressed like that out in public on their own, because I've been led to believe they need male escorts, and assume that one might be around. if I make eye-contact, I might be contributing to an honor-killing, or perhaps some acid-splashed on her face.
- ceejayoz 14y ago> I'm surprised to see women dressed like that out in public on their own, because I've been led to believe they need male escorts, and assume that one might be around. That's a very, very small subset of hijab wearers, and you're unlikely to see any of them at a Western mall.
- mgkimsal 14y agoPossibly, but how can I be sure? Really not trolling at all, but trying to make any assumptions about what's 'safe' in situations where someone's life may be at stake, I err on the side of caution.
- ignignokt 14y agoDon't you think that your thinking that she might be killed for you looking at her is prejudicial against Muslim men? Seems offensive to me if you won't look at someone because you assume a man will kill her for it... Do you not look at all women because they might have insanely jealous boyfriends who will then kill them for that too, hey it's technically possible right, so you should err on the side of caution?
- mgkimsal 14y agoI tend not to. Yes some may have insanely jealous boyfriends, but it's harder to tell in the absence of visual clues. Typical muslim garb is a signal which does tend to stand out in some circles, and that's one of the things I infer. No, I don't think every time I look at a woman in a hijab she will be killed, but it does come in to the back of my mind more often than it does when seeing other women in local shops/stores/malls. Is it prejudicial, as in pre-judging? Yes. People wearing certain types of garb send out signals intended to portray specific meaning. Sometimes extra meanings they didn't intend are also inferred.
- stfu 14y agoIt's all about symbolism. People simplify, people make fast judgments, people use visual cues to make their life easier. If I walk into a job interview in a suit and a tie I get a slightly different reaction than by walking in wearing swimming clothing. And if it is more than just a fashion statement, but a symbolism of religion, then we open up a whole new can of worms. The wearing of burqa'esq clothing is highly controversial, as its banning in various countries across Europe is discussed and in parts even implemented [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa#Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa#Europe
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- flyinglizard 14y agoSome Muslims wanted us to fear Islam. I guess that worked.
- TallGuyShort 14y agoSome politicians wanted you to think that's what the Muslims wanted. I guess that worked.
- grecy 14y agoI honestly believe America is captivated right now by fear itself. It could be nuclear fallout from Japan, or Islam, or H1N1, or drug cartels in Mexico, or Canadian healthcare, or communists, or the Arab Spring, or any number of other things that for all intents are purposes are almost entirely non-threatening to the average citizen on the street. The focus of the fear is completely irrelevant. The primary goal is perpetual fear itself.
- flyinglizard 14y agoFunny thing about Americans; if they mind their own business, other nations laugh at them for being stupid and ignorant only concerned about their trash TV and oversized drinks. On the other hand, if the average American does show some interest in international affairs or political ideas, people say he's in perpetual fear and mind controlled by politicians. You just can't win.
- Gigablah 14y agoYou were so desperate to make that point that you equated "interest" with "irrational fear".
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- ninetax 14y agoThis thread makes me very sad and happy at the same time. So many of the comments show an ignorance I thought to be a thing of the past or at least taboo. But there seems to be just as many other commenters trying to help educate and enlighten, it's great to see that we are at least making progress.
- onetwothreefour 14y agoThen you think... shit... it's 2012. :)
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- harrylove 14y agoYou might also appreciate Black Like Me (1961)[1]. I think I read this in middle school or high school. A white man poses as a black man for several weeks in the racially segregated South. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me
- Kopion 14y agoI was walking through TSA about a week ago and someone about 5 people in front of me was wearing a hijab, and of course they didn't have to take it off while I had to take off 2 of my layers and then be patted down. I wouldn't have had to do any of that if those same people who wear hijabs hadn't taken many American lives over the years. I'm pretty sure I have a right to have my well reasoned and justified prejudices. If nothing else, I am much more aware of my surroundings when I see someone wearing a hijab. This heightened awareness is simply my human nature taking over.
- rgbrgb 14y agoAll the Nazi's marched like ducks so I always spit in ponds. "well reasoned and justified prejudices"
- TallGuyShort 14y agoWhen I see a woman in a hijab, I also tend to look away - but it's because they're worn for modesty and I worry it would be disrespectful to them to "gaze" longer than necessary. Can somebody more familiar with Muslim thinking comment on this? I've visited muslim households where modesty was so important, the women would not even present themselves (however well covered they were dressed) in front of men outside their family. So although this style of hijab is much more "modern" - I still don't want to make a muslim woman feel uncomfortable.
- amastilovic 14y agoNot being given looks by people passing by is exactly the reaction headscarves, burqas and other similar garments are supposed to produce. They represent chastity and modesty, and showing off your bodily features definitely doesn't fall into those categories. The concept of sending a message to people by fashion is very simple actually, and I personally think that reacting to such a message does not represent ignorance. Take the scarf off and let your face and hair be visible - people will look at you. Cover yourself in wraps - people will turn their looks away, and that is exactly the intended effect. It might seem strange to a white girl in a western society, but that doesn't change the fact. As far as terrorism reference goes, that's a perfect example of generalization, another thing the whole humanity exercises daily simply because that is the way our reasoning works. Unfortunate it might be, but people generalize everywhere and about everything, and especially so when they are frightened.
- ixacto 14y agoImagine if a 17 year-old Saudi/Persian/Pakistani girl decided to wear a tube-top and skinny jeans and no hair-covering out on the town in Mecca or Qom or Islamabad. I am sure the only response would be remarks from children who are not yet attuned to social norms, e.g. not commenting on peoples appearances. After all, we do live in a globalized society.
- ignignokt 14y agoSo the fact that there's discrimination in other countries makes it OK?
- ixacto 14y agoThe point that I was attempting to convey was that tolerance needs to be a part of both cultures. We as westerners cannot be reasonably expected to treat Islamic culture as equal to Western culture if we treat it with 'kid gloves', or make meaningless accommodations in the name of political correctness. I am not afraid to say that I have a relatively low opinion of the current Islamic culture. Sure it may have been great 1000 years ago, but with the executions for homosexuality, stoning in Pakistan/Afghanistan, and murder of westerners [Theo van Gogh et al] not to mention the horrible treatment of women, it honestly just pisses me off. Mabey in some parts of majority-Muslim nations it isn't that bad after all, but it doesn't really matter as I am unlikely to have much contact with strict Muslims in the first place.
- ignignokt 14y agoBut the person who wrote this article was presumably playing the part of an American Muslim, so what do other countries have to do with this at all? It's OK to be prejudice against Muslims from your own country because some Muslims in other countries aren't nice people?
- ixacto 14y agoDid you even read my comment? It has everything to do with Islam and Islamic culture, which are two different things, both of which have different presences around the world. For the record, I don't like Islamic culture. I don't judge individual people, but I believe that a religion that was founded by a pedophile [aisha] and murderer [jews and others] should not have any influence on the world today. The best way to get rid of Islam is to stop believing in it, but oddly enough Muslims have a habit of stoning apostates.
- ISL 14y agoI'm relatively new here. Why did this thread disappear off the front page? At 72 points in an hour, it ought to be by far the top post. The current leader is 67 points in 5 hours. Are things that get up-modded that fast dropped as off-topic? Thanks!
- thewordis 14y agoPeople who flag it (click the 'flag' link) counteract the upvotes.
- hnwh 14y agoWhere was this?
- stats1011 14y agoThis is an exemplar of how much courage it takes for women Muslims to dress in a manner to upkeep their beliefs. Women who wear the hijab should be praised to the utmost. The society they operate it is xenophobic, and at times very bigoted. I for one, as a late 20's person of faith, would struggle to muster up such strength.
- geekam 14y agoI am brown guy who sports a light beard. This combination alone has got people discriminate against me. Something as simple as being refused a bacon sandwich thinking I am a Muslim. I can imagine how these prejudices affect us and especially people wearing a turban or hijab. The outlook has to change, not the hijab. She can remove the hijab but what about the color of the skin? That cannot be changed. However, I also agree that we, human beings, run to stigmatize an entire community rather quickly. For example, much of the Indian community in India thinks that "white" folks are more promiscuous. All of them. It is a widespread notion that they are ready for sex. There is no research that I can cite and only a few personal experiences and examples. e.g. http://www.whiteindianhousewife.com/2012/04/the-other-side-of-racism-in-india/ http://www.whiteindianhousewife.com/2012/04/the-other-side-o... How can these things change?