8 ms·
The steps to trouble: - identify who owns the number - compel that person to give unlocked phone - government can read messages of _all_ people in group chat
by charliebwrites 8mo ago
The steps to trouble:
- identify who owns the number
- compel that person to give unlocked phone
- government can read messages of _all_ people in group chat not just that person
Corollary:
Disappearing messages severely limits what can be read
- SR2Z 8mo agoUnless they compel people at gunpoint (which prevents the government from bringing a case), they will probably not have much luck with this. As soon as a user sets up a passcode or other lock on their phone, it is beyond the ability of even most parts of the US government to look inside. It's much more likely that the government convinces one member of the group chat to turn on the other members and give up their phone numbers.
- hedayet 8mo agoor convince one member of a group chat to show their group chat...
- pixl97 8mo agohttps://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- janalsncm 8mo agoThis is accurate, but the important point is that threatening people with wrenches isn’t scalable in the way mass surveillance is. The problem with mass surveillance is the “mass” part: warrantless fishing expeditions.
- OhMeadhbh 8mo agohunh. we haven't even started talking about stingray, tracking radios and so forth.
- fruitworks 8mo agoit is difficult to wrench someone when you do not know who they are
- pixl97 8mo agoI mean they have a lot of tools to figure out who you are if they catch you at a rally or something like that. Cameras and facial identification, cell phone location tracking and more. What they also want is the list of people you're coordinating with that aren't there.
- heavyset_go 8mo agoSomeone knows who they are and they can bash different skulls until one of them gives them what they're looking for.
- fruitworks 8mo agoWho is someone?
- neves 8mo agoOr just let the guy to enter the country after unlocking her phone.
- midasz 8mo ago> which prevents the government from bringing a case Genuinely, from outside, it seems like your government doesn't give a damn on what they are and aren't allowed to do.
- dylan604 8mo agoLooks that way from the inside as well.
- nyc_data_geek 8mo agoYes and all of the credulous rubes still whinging about how they "can't imagine" how it's gotten this bad or how much worse it can get, or how "this is not who we are" at some point should no longer be taken as suckers in good faith, and at some point must rightly be viewed as either willfully complicit bad faith interlocuters, or useful idiots.
- dylan604 8mo agoLearning about WWII in high school, I often wondered how the people allowed the Axis leaders gain power. Now I know. However, I feel we're worse for allowing it to happen because we were supposed to "never again".
- causalscience 8mo agoWorse, I often wondered how some people collaborated. Now I know that many people would rather have a chunk of the population rounded up and killed than lose their job.
- nyc_data_geek 8mo ago"Whoever can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." and "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." etc, etc. So it goes
- mrWiz 8mo agoAll they have to do is pretend to be a concerned neighbor who wants to help give mutual aid and hope that someone in the group chat takes the bait and adds them in. No further convincing is needed.
- OhMeadhbh 8mo agosocial engineering for the win.
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 8mo agoIf you aren't saving people's phone numbers in your own contacts, signal isn't storing them in group chats (and even if you are, it doesn't say which number, just that you have a contact with them). Signal doesn't share numbers by default and hasn't for a few years now. And you can toggle a setting to remove your number from contact discovery/lookup entirely if you are so inclined.
- xmcp123 8mo agoThere are multiple companies that can get different amounts of information off of locked phones including iPhones, and they work with LE. I’m also curious what they could get off of cloud backups. Thinking in terms of auth, keys, etc. For SMS it’s almost as good as phone access, but I am not sure for apps.
- thewebguyd 8mo ago> it is beyond the ability of even most parts of the US government to look inside. I'm sure the Israeli spyware companies can help with that. Although then they'd have to start burning their zero days to just go after protestors, which I doubt they're willing to do. I imagine they like to save those for bigger targets.
- direwolf20 8mo agoCellebrite can break into every phone except GrapheneOS.
- thewebguyd 8mo agoCellebrite still requires the device to be confiscated. So if they are trying for mass surveillance, they'll have to rely on phishing or zero day exploits to get their spyware on the device to intercept messages. These tend to get patched shortly after being seen in the wild (like the recent WhatsApp one), so they need to decide if its worth it to burn that zero day or not.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- ddtaylor 8mo agoI'm confident the people executing non-complaint people in the street would be capable of compelling a citizen.
- XorNot 8mo agoWhich is just a redux of what I find myself saying constantly: privacy usually isn't even the problem. The problem is the people kicking in your door. If you're willing to kick in doors to suppress legal rights, then having accurate information isn't necessary at all. If your resistance plan is to chat about stuff privately, then by definition you're also not doing much resisting to you know, the door kicking.
- heavyset_go 8mo agoThey'll just threaten to throw the book at you if you don't unlock your phone, and if you aren't rich, your lawyer will tell you to take the plea deal they offer because it beats sitting in prison until you die.
- mrWiz 8mo agoIt's even easier than that. They're simply asking on neighborhood Facebook (and other services too, I assume) groups to be added to mutual aid Signal groups and hoping that somebody will add them without bothering to vet them first.
- OhMeadhbh 8mo agoI think disappearing messages only works if you activate it on your local device. And if the man compromises someone without everyone else knowing, they get all messages after that. But yes... it does limit what can be read. My point is it's not perfect.
- Bender 8mo agoIs the message on storage zero'd out or just deleted?
- Bender 8mo agocompel that person to give unlocked phone Celebrite or just JTAG over bluetooth or USB. It's always been a thing but legally they are not supposed to use it. Of course laws after the NSA debacle are always followed. Pinky promise.