4 ms·

Does China go around the world invading countries in the name of freedom? > Content about the United States government rolling through protesters in armored ve

Does China go around the world invading countries in the name of freedom? > Content about the United States government rolling through protesters in armored vehicles, killing people in Venezuela with bombs, and threatening Greenland, straight to top of feed. None of this is propaganda, it's just facts.

sneak 9mo ago
Propaganda can be entirely factual. In fact, the best propaganda is.
- parthdesai 9mo ago
  I think you're being sarcastic, but just in case you're not > Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic manipulation of information—including facts, half-truths, or lies—to influence public opinion, attitudes, and behaviors toward a specific cause, ideology, or agenda.
  - cheeseomlit 9mo ago
    >including facts
    - parthdesai 9mo ago
      > deliberate, systematic manipulation of information And, what are we doing with those facts? We're manipulating them lol
      - fc417fc802 9mo ago
        It's using information to influence public opinion in a calculated manner. Said information can include facts. It can even be entirely factual. Manipulating the feed of a social media website for the purpose of swaying the viewer's opinion is a cut and dry example of propaganda. Doesn't matter who does it or whether the information displayed is factual or not. Those things make zero difference.
        johnnyanmac 9mo ago
        This really doesn't pass the sniff test. It reminds me of a recent post I saw: "what are movies people like only becsuse it is good?", calling it "quality slop". It's contradictory. If people are given a wide perspective of a situation and adjusts bias for the Overton window (aka, we don't let Nazis have an equal platform to a more progressive group), then we just call that good reporting. The act of convincing people isn't inherently a bad thing. How you do it matters a lot.
        fc417fc802 9mo ago
        You're subtly misattributing me though. "Convincing someone" is a superset which contains intentional manipulation of the information someone is exposed to but also lots of other things. As you said, how you do it matters a lot. You've also gone and (IIUC) equated the general biases of an outlet with propaganda which I certainly wouldn't agree with. They're similar, and the former can certainly morph into the latter, but they aren't the same thing.
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        GP is saying people aren't given a wide perspective of a situation
      - Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
        That can be part of it, but usually it's not necessary - certain facts, or certain aspects of facts (e.g. exclude some context) can just get exaggerated to have the desired effect on a larger population.
  - sneak 9mo ago
    I am not being sarcastic at all. It is a common misconception that propaganda means lies. Propaganda is information designed to get you to believe a certain thing or feel a certain way. The best propaganda uses entirely truthful statements to manipulate your beliefs and emotions.
    - somenameforme 9mo ago
      One of the best examples of this were the endless photos and information about stocked store shelves, filled with fresh goods at dirt cheap prices, during the Cold War. In general truth is the best propaganda, because when you lie there's always a rubber-band effect when somebody realizes, sooner or later, that they've been had.
  - mvdtnz 9mo ago
    So literally what he just said. Propaganda can be factual.
  - muwtyhg 9mo ago
    Sometimes what you choose to show, even if true, can impact how people see a situation or fact. That is what the OP is referring to. Your quote even mentions that propaganda can be made of "facts" and "half-truths" (a half-truth is usually a fact with a portion omitted to change the interpretation of the fact).
  - carlosjobim 9mo ago
    Propaganda is information which supports a specific cause, whether true or false. If you think "propaganda" is defined as something being lies, then you have misunderstood the word. Product advertising is the most widespread form of propaganda. And in some non-english countries it is called "propaganda" and not "marketing".
  - WarmWash 9mo ago
    A large percentage of Americans are convinced that police will just shoot them if they happen to feel like it. Even including ICE in this statistic, you will never even meet someone who knows someone who was murdered by a cop. Police encounters that turn deadly, not even blatant murder, are on the order of 1 in 50,000. However, that stream of police murder videos are definitely real. Propaganda is often stoking tiny sparks into large raging forest fires.
    - southerntofu 9mo ago
      > police will just shoot them if they happen to feel like it. Well that's exactly the problem. There's nothing stopping them: no accountability, no justice. Many cops just don't feel like randomly shooting people, and that's good. The problem is if they do, and even if they brag about it, little will be done. Take for example the latest Sainte-Soline repression scandal revealed a few months back by Mediapart [1] where videos show dozens of riot cops making a contest about maiming the most people, encouraging one another to break engagement rules, and advocating for outright murder. Everybody knew before the bodycam videos, but now that we have official proof, we're still waiting for any kind of accountability. If i go around and shoot people, there is no way i will avoid prison. If a cop goes around and shoots people, or strangles people to death, prison is a very unlikely outcome. > you will never even meet someone who knows someone who was murdered by a cop That's not how statistics work. Police abuse tends to happen in the same low-income social groups (and ethnic minorities). As an example, living in France, i've met several people who had a family member killed by police. Statistically unlikely if i only hung around in "startup nation" or "intellectual bourgeoisie" circles, which is not my case. [1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifestation_du_25_mars_2023_%C3%A0_Sainte-Soline#Preuves_vid%C3%A9o_de_violences_polici%C3%A8res https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifestation_du_25_mars_2023_...
      - WarmWash 9mo ago
        Being killed by police is different than being murdered by police. Police in the US kill somewhere around 1000 people a year. But of those, it's something like 5-10 that are murders. There is maybe 1 every few years where the cop is itching to shoot someone who is clearly compliant and not a threat. The 990 police killing videos that become available every year now are not particularly compelling, because its bad actors trying to kill police and getting themselves killed. Sorry, I don't know anything about France and police though. The US has a different dynamic because guns are everywhere, especially where crime is. Every cop knows about the ~50 cops who are killed by guns every year.
- brabel 9mo ago
  In Portuguese we use the same word for ad and propaganda! In fact that word is just propaganda!
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    PR departments used to be called propaganda departments
  - tintor 9mo ago
    In Serbian too: EPP - Ekonomske Propagandne Poruke | Economic Propaganda Messages
sbsnjsks 9mo ago
[dead]
morkalork 9mo ago
You should see how some people justify Tibet..
ikrenji 9mo ago
I mean China is not exactly a poster child for a benevolent hegemon - tibet / taiwan / uyghurs to name a few
- hungryhobo 9mo ago
  all 3 places you mentioned have been integrated into china longer than the us has been a country
  - Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
    Are you trying to say that excuses the human rights violations happening there? Besides, you're comparing it with the US which is also known for its human rights violations ever since the continent was discovered.
thomasmg 9mo ago
China: for Taiwan, they are in the planning phase. (Vietnam, Hong Kong, Tibet, Aksai Chin, Korea, Scarborough Shoal do not count in your view of course). Not saying they are worse than the US.
- rluna828 9mo ago
  What China did to the Han Chinese makes them worse than ANY other modern country. The great leap forward and the cultural revolution have not comparison. Add in the chinese invasion of Tibet in 1959 and 1979 invasion of Vietnam and they are butchers and imperialists.
  - kdfjgbdfkjgb 9mo ago
    the Han? are you sure you didn't mean a different group?
  - tw1984 9mo ago
    > The great leap forward You need far better propaganda materials for your "great leap forward" blames in 2026. There were bad policies, but the intention good, it was all about moving the country forward. It failed horribly with huge consequences, that is just the reminder that a full scale industrialisation for over 1 billion people is not something that can be earned easily. Like it or not, the "Exceeding the UK, catching the USA" (超英赶美) goal of the great leap forward has been overfulfilled under the leadership of the CCP with the help of brutal state capitalism. Everything else is just cheap talk. Having a full scale industrialization larger than the G7 combined is not something handed to China on a silver platter - those very sad deaths caused by the failed attempts during the great leap forward was a part of the costs. > and the cultural revolution have not comparison. The cultural revolution is brutal, nothing should be used to defend it. It is just so wrong. That being said, the west is going through the exact same cultural revolution - * extremely polarised society with everything is politicalised * populism taking control * suicidal policies destroying the civilizational foundations the difference is 99% Han Chinese consider the cultural revolution as extremely bad, while the west is enjoying having its own ongoing cultural revolution. if you add the recent woke cancer, the western version of the ongoing cultural revolution is far more brutal.
Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
That might be, but if it's amplified through social media it becomes propaganda. Example, 99% of people are normal, but if all you see is the 1% that isn't you'll start to believe more than 1% aren't normal. Especially if that 1% is of a recognisable ethnicity / religion / background. This is why there's a shift to the right.

sneak 9mo ago

Propaganda can be entirely factual. In fact, the best propaganda is.

parthdesai 9mo ago
I think you're being sarcastic, but just in case you're not > Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic manipulation of information—including facts, half-truths, or lies—to influence public opinion, attitudes, and behaviors toward a specific cause, ideology, or agenda.
- cheeseomlit 9mo ago
  >including facts
  - parthdesai 9mo ago
    > deliberate, systematic manipulation of information And, what are we doing with those facts? We're manipulating them lol
    - fc417fc802 9mo ago
      It's using information to influence public opinion in a calculated manner. Said information can include facts. It can even be entirely factual. Manipulating the feed of a social media website for the purpose of swaying the viewer's opinion is a cut and dry example of propaganda. Doesn't matter who does it or whether the information displayed is factual or not. Those things make zero difference.
      - johnnyanmac 9mo ago
        This really doesn't pass the sniff test. It reminds me of a recent post I saw: "what are movies people like only becsuse it is good?", calling it "quality slop". It's contradictory. If people are given a wide perspective of a situation and adjusts bias for the Overton window (aka, we don't let Nazis have an equal platform to a more progressive group), then we just call that good reporting. The act of convincing people isn't inherently a bad thing. How you do it matters a lot.
        fc417fc802 9mo ago
        You're subtly misattributing me though. "Convincing someone" is a superset which contains intentional manipulation of the information someone is exposed to but also lots of other things. As you said, how you do it matters a lot. You've also gone and (IIUC) equated the general biases of an outlet with propaganda which I certainly wouldn't agree with. They're similar, and the former can certainly morph into the latter, but they aren't the same thing.
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        GP is saying people aren't given a wide perspective of a situation
    - Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
      That can be part of it, but usually it's not necessary - certain facts, or certain aspects of facts (e.g. exclude some context) can just get exaggerated to have the desired effect on a larger population.
- sneak 9mo ago
  I am not being sarcastic at all. It is a common misconception that propaganda means lies. Propaganda is information designed to get you to believe a certain thing or feel a certain way. The best propaganda uses entirely truthful statements to manipulate your beliefs and emotions.
  - somenameforme 9mo ago
    One of the best examples of this were the endless photos and information about stocked store shelves, filled with fresh goods at dirt cheap prices, during the Cold War. In general truth is the best propaganda, because when you lie there's always a rubber-band effect when somebody realizes, sooner or later, that they've been had.
- mvdtnz 9mo ago
  So literally what he just said. Propaganda can be factual.
- muwtyhg 9mo ago
  Sometimes what you choose to show, even if true, can impact how people see a situation or fact. That is what the OP is referring to. Your quote even mentions that propaganda can be made of "facts" and "half-truths" (a half-truth is usually a fact with a portion omitted to change the interpretation of the fact).
- carlosjobim 9mo ago
  Propaganda is information which supports a specific cause, whether true or false. If you think "propaganda" is defined as something being lies, then you have misunderstood the word. Product advertising is the most widespread form of propaganda. And in some non-english countries it is called "propaganda" and not "marketing".
- WarmWash 9mo ago
  A large percentage of Americans are convinced that police will just shoot them if they happen to feel like it. Even including ICE in this statistic, you will never even meet someone who knows someone who was murdered by a cop. Police encounters that turn deadly, not even blatant murder, are on the order of 1 in 50,000. However, that stream of police murder videos are definitely real. Propaganda is often stoking tiny sparks into large raging forest fires.
  - southerntofu 9mo ago
    > police will just shoot them if they happen to feel like it. Well that's exactly the problem. There's nothing stopping them: no accountability, no justice. Many cops just don't feel like randomly shooting people, and that's good. The problem is if they do, and even if they brag about it, little will be done. Take for example the latest Sainte-Soline repression scandal revealed a few months back by Mediapart [1] where videos show dozens of riot cops making a contest about maiming the most people, encouraging one another to break engagement rules, and advocating for outright murder. Everybody knew before the bodycam videos, but now that we have official proof, we're still waiting for any kind of accountability. If i go around and shoot people, there is no way i will avoid prison. If a cop goes around and shoots people, or strangles people to death, prison is a very unlikely outcome. > you will never even meet someone who knows someone who was murdered by a cop That's not how statistics work. Police abuse tends to happen in the same low-income social groups (and ethnic minorities). As an example, living in France, i've met several people who had a family member killed by police. Statistically unlikely if i only hung around in "startup nation" or "intellectual bourgeoisie" circles, which is not my case. [1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifestation_du_25_mars_2023_%C3%A0_Sainte-Soline#Preuves_vid%C3%A9o_de_violences_polici%C3%A8res https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifestation_du_25_mars_2023_...
    - WarmWash 9mo ago
      Being killed by police is different than being murdered by police. Police in the US kill somewhere around 1000 people a year. But of those, it's something like 5-10 that are murders. There is maybe 1 every few years where the cop is itching to shoot someone who is clearly compliant and not a threat. The 990 police killing videos that become available every year now are not particularly compelling, because its bad actors trying to kill police and getting themselves killed. Sorry, I don't know anything about France and police though. The US has a different dynamic because guns are everywhere, especially where crime is. Every cop knows about the ~50 cops who are killed by guns every year.
brabel 9mo ago
In Portuguese we use the same word for ad and propaganda! In fact that word is just propaganda!
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  PR departments used to be called propaganda departments
- tintor 9mo ago
  In Serbian too: EPP - Ekonomske Propagandne Poruke | Economic Propaganda Messages

sbsnjsks 9mo ago

[dead]

morkalork 9mo ago

You should see how some people justify Tibet..

ikrenji 9mo ago

I mean China is not exactly a poster child for a benevolent hegemon - tibet / taiwan / uyghurs to name a few

hungryhobo 9mo ago
all 3 places you mentioned have been integrated into china longer than the us has been a country
- Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
  Are you trying to say that excuses the human rights violations happening there? Besides, you're comparing it with the US which is also known for its human rights violations ever since the continent was discovered.

thomasmg 9mo ago

China: for Taiwan, they are in the planning phase. (Vietnam, Hong Kong, Tibet, Aksai Chin, Korea, Scarborough Shoal do not count in your view of course). Not saying they are worse than the US.

rluna828 9mo ago
What China did to the Han Chinese makes them worse than ANY other modern country. The great leap forward and the cultural revolution have not comparison. Add in the chinese invasion of Tibet in 1959 and 1979 invasion of Vietnam and they are butchers and imperialists.
- kdfjgbdfkjgb 9mo ago
  the Han? are you sure you didn't mean a different group?
- tw1984 9mo ago
  > The great leap forward You need far better propaganda materials for your "great leap forward" blames in 2026. There were bad policies, but the intention good, it was all about moving the country forward. It failed horribly with huge consequences, that is just the reminder that a full scale industrialisation for over 1 billion people is not something that can be earned easily. Like it or not, the "Exceeding the UK, catching the USA" (超英赶美) goal of the great leap forward has been overfulfilled under the leadership of the CCP with the help of brutal state capitalism. Everything else is just cheap talk. Having a full scale industrialization larger than the G7 combined is not something handed to China on a silver platter - those very sad deaths caused by the failed attempts during the great leap forward was a part of the costs. > and the cultural revolution have not comparison. The cultural revolution is brutal, nothing should be used to defend it. It is just so wrong. That being said, the west is going through the exact same cultural revolution - * extremely polarised society with everything is politicalised * populism taking control * suicidal policies destroying the civilizational foundations the difference is 99% Han Chinese consider the cultural revolution as extremely bad, while the west is enjoying having its own ongoing cultural revolution. if you add the recent woke cancer, the western version of the ongoing cultural revolution is far more brutal.

Cthulhu_ 9mo ago

That might be, but if it's amplified through social media it becomes propaganda. Example, 99% of people are normal, but if all you see is the 1% that isn't you'll start to believe more than 1% aren't normal. Especially if that 1% is of a recognisable ethnicity / religion / background. This is why there's a shift to the right.