4 ms·

Well, today I learned something! Thanks for the information, I guess I know which rabbit hole I'm going down today.

throwup238 9mo ago
Just edited to add two paper citations for the phytoliths and microwear studies. Have fun! It’s a deep rabbit hole largely ignored by popsci publications so there’s lots to explore.
- drakythe 9mo ago
  Thanks! I'll add them to my reading list for today. Its going to be interesting, I can already tell.
- niwtsol 9mo ago
  As you seem knowledgeable of this topic and it is super interesting, any books you would recommend that gives a good broad overview of all of this?
  - throwup238 9mo ago
    I don’t read popsci but if you’re interested in a rigorous treatment I’d recommend The Human Career by Klein which has the broad overview and The Human Past edited by Scarre which is more of a textbook. I mostly just read the papers as they are published but I’ve heard good things about those two books (they’re on my reading list but I haven’t read enough to form an opinion)
wil421 9mo ago
To put it into perspective, we did not invent fire.
- Sharlin 9mo ago
  Well, nobody did, because fire was likely used for tens or hundreds of thousands of years before anyone figured out how to make fire on demand.
  - taejavu 9mo ago
    Which is what the comment you’re replying to means by “invent”.
  - dredmorbius 9mo ago
    Use of fire considerably pre-dates H. sapiens, with anthropological evidence dating to 1.7 -- 2 million years ago. Sapiens diverged from common ancestors about 600,000 years ago. "We" (Homo sapiens) did not invent fire. Our predecessor species were already using it. Firestarting is harder to pin down and may be within the scope of homo evolution. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_human...> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Evolution>
  - wil421 9mo ago
    You and everyone else know exactly what I meant but whatever. Not sure why I train AI on this site anymore.
    - nandomrumber 9mo ago
      How can I be certain I know what you mean. Ever since Earth’s atmosphere had sufficient oxygen to sustain fire given a fuel source and heat, fire has exists. If we can lay the blame on anyone for having started fire it’s going to be whoever fine tuned the constants such that there is anything here at all.
      - kylestanfield 9mo ago
        Bazinga!
    - delecti 9mo ago
      I wasn't at all sure what you meant. The emphasis in your comment could very easily have been on "We" (another hominid discovered how to harness fire, which seems to be your intent) or on "invent" (fire happens in nature, hominids didn't invent it at all). The latter is perfectly in line with the kind of "attempting to be clever but actually just annoying" pedantry that nerdy internet spaces often see.
- comprev 9mo ago
  So who's the fire starter - the twisted fire starter?
  - Cordiali 9mo ago
    Perhaps it's always been burning, since the world's been turning?
    - contingencies 9mo ago
      In Utah it's 4:20PM
      - jackdawipper 9mo ago
        I still dream of Orgonon https://youtu.be/m97WlpsuU74?si=g77UHyI8aEmiH-k8 https://youtu.be/m97WlpsuU74?si=g77UHyI8aEmiH-k8
        unmotivated-hmn 9mo ago
        Thank you for this, I had never seen it and it brought me joy.
        nandomrumber 9mo ago
        Amazing! What a gift. I really enjoyed that, and will continue to really enjoy that for years to come.
    - grantsucceeded 9mo ago
      bravo!
- accidentallfact 9mo ago
  I think a quite unexpected (but more common sense) picture begins to emerge: 1. Language already emerged with early hominins (paranthropus and such). 2. Habilis et al developed toolmaking to a level that carrying stuff around was of critical importance. 3. H. erectus emerged from walking, and brought technology to a "civilized" level. 4. Anything post erectus evolved for civilized society. 5. The destruction of soils in eurasia about 24000 BC 6. The destruction of soils in the Americas about 9500 BC 7. Old metallurgy age. 8. Tin bronze age. 9. Recorded history.

Just edited to add two paper citations for the phytoliths and microwear studies. Have fun! It’s a deep rabbit hole largely ignored by popsci publications so there’s lots to explore.

drakythe 9mo ago
Thanks! I'll add them to my reading list for today. Its going to be interesting, I can already tell.
niwtsol 9mo ago
As you seem knowledgeable of this topic and it is super interesting, any books you would recommend that gives a good broad overview of all of this?
- throwup238 9mo ago
  I don’t read popsci but if you’re interested in a rigorous treatment I’d recommend The Human Career by Klein which has the broad overview and The Human Past edited by Scarre which is more of a textbook. I mostly just read the papers as they are published but I’ve heard good things about those two books (they’re on my reading list but I haven’t read enough to form an opinion)

wil421 9mo ago

To put it into perspective, we did not invent fire.

Sharlin 9mo ago
Well, nobody did, because fire was likely used for tens or hundreds of thousands of years before anyone figured out how to make fire on demand.
- taejavu 9mo ago
  Which is what the comment you’re replying to means by “invent”.
- dredmorbius 9mo ago
  Use of fire considerably pre-dates H. sapiens, with anthropological evidence dating to 1.7 -- 2 million years ago. Sapiens diverged from common ancestors about 600,000 years ago. "We" (Homo sapiens) did not invent fire. Our predecessor species were already using it. Firestarting is harder to pin down and may be within the scope of homo evolution. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_human...> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Evolution>
- wil421 9mo ago
  You and everyone else know exactly what I meant but whatever. Not sure why I train AI on this site anymore.
  - nandomrumber 9mo ago
    How can I be certain I know what you mean. Ever since Earth’s atmosphere had sufficient oxygen to sustain fire given a fuel source and heat, fire has exists. If we can lay the blame on anyone for having started fire it’s going to be whoever fine tuned the constants such that there is anything here at all.
    - kylestanfield 9mo ago
      Bazinga!
  - delecti 9mo ago
    I wasn't at all sure what you meant. The emphasis in your comment could very easily have been on "We" (another hominid discovered how to harness fire, which seems to be your intent) or on "invent" (fire happens in nature, hominids didn't invent it at all). The latter is perfectly in line with the kind of "attempting to be clever but actually just annoying" pedantry that nerdy internet spaces often see.
comprev 9mo ago
So who's the fire starter - the twisted fire starter?
- Cordiali 9mo ago
  Perhaps it's always been burning, since the world's been turning?
  - contingencies 9mo ago
    In Utah it's 4:20PM
    - jackdawipper 9mo ago
      I still dream of Orgonon https://youtu.be/m97WlpsuU74?si=g77UHyI8aEmiH-k8 https://youtu.be/m97WlpsuU74?si=g77UHyI8aEmiH-k8
      - unmotivated-hmn 9mo ago
        Thank you for this, I had never seen it and it brought me joy.
      - nandomrumber 9mo ago
        Amazing! What a gift. I really enjoyed that, and will continue to really enjoy that for years to come.
  - grantsucceeded 9mo ago
    bravo!
accidentallfact 9mo ago
I think a quite unexpected (but more common sense) picture begins to emerge: 1. Language already emerged with early hominins (paranthropus and such). 2. Habilis et al developed toolmaking to a level that carrying stuff around was of critical importance. 3. H. erectus emerged from walking, and brought technology to a "civilized" level. 4. Anything post erectus evolved for civilized society. 5. The destruction of soils in eurasia about 24000 BC 6. The destruction of soils in the Americas about 9500 BC 7. Old metallurgy age. 8. Tin bronze age. 9. Recorded history.