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> Case-in-point of why we shouldn't have approached China like we did over the last few decades. It normalized totalitarianism in some segments of Western socie

> Case-in-point of why we shouldn't have approached China like we did over the last few decades. It normalized totalitarianism in some segments of Western society. An interesting thought I read a couple days ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/24/opinion/trump-carney-china-rupture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/24/opinion/trump-carney-chin...: > Finally, and most controversially, I suspect the same “if not America, then China” logic applies to political ordering as well. The United States under Trumpian conditions has allowed populism to come to power, bringing chaos and authoritarian behavior in its train. Recoil from that by all means — but recognize that it happened through democratic mechanisms, under freewheeling political conditions. > Meanwhile, the modes through which Europe and Canada have sought to suppress populism involve harsh restrictions on speech, elite collusion and other expression of managerial illiberalism. And what is China’s dictatorship if not managerial illiberalism in full flower? When European elites talk about China as a potentially more stable partner than the whipsawing United States, when they talk admiringly about its environmental goals and technocratic capacity, they aren’t defending a liberal alternative to Trumpian populism. They are letting the magnet of Chinese power draw them away from their own democratic traditions.

1over137 9mo ago
China is not publicly espousing conquering Canada and Greenland (Europe). Who would you choose, the people threatening to invade you, or the other guys?!?!
- lostlogin 9mo ago
  China is threatening invade other places, which are of more value to them.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9mo ago
    It would not surprise me in the least to discover that China is the true source of the current internal attack on the US, and Russia is a cut out. It would be efficient for China to have Russia undermine the US while Russia also weakens itself. China has made huge inroads in Africa, which gives it access to essential metals and other raw materials, and also puts it in a strong position diplomatically.
    - lostlogin 9mo ago
      If the root cause is external, it’s easier to stomach. But what if this is just America, attacking itself? That’s a lot harder.
    - somenameforme 9mo ago
      America's history is basically one long story of internal divisions, briefly overcome primarily during economic booms. The last economic boom, the computing/internet boom, was particularly long lived and helped create the longest window of internal stability we've had. That boom's coming to an end, and the era of stability it brought probably isn't that far behind. And this is before you even stop to consider things like social media which helps amp up and accelerate divisions by orders of magnitude.
  - 1over137 9mo ago
    >China is threatening invade other places... Taiwan and where else?
    - lenerdenator 9mo ago
      Pretty much anything that happens to abut the South China Sea. I suppose you could also make the argument that they already did invade Tibet and Hong Kong, though that's splitting hairs.
      - RobotToaster 9mo ago
        Hong Kong was always Chinese, and was leased at gun point.
        lenerdenator 9mo ago
        And now the agreement that they'd be given a more liberalistic government is being torn up at gun point.
        lostlogin 9mo ago
        The government that leased it couldn’t really have less to do with the government that took it over in recent times. Things got considerably worse for Hong Kong, and the citizens didn’t want to join China. It’s certainly not a given that donating it to China was the right call.
        _carbyau_ 9mo ago
        > It’s certainly not a given that donating it to China was the right call. The right call for who? For the people there? Not good. For a contracting British empire facing a clearly growing-in-power China it was a graceful exit without military conflict.
        lostlogin 9mo ago
        Good point, maybe I have questions about the ‘graceful’ bit though.
- thesmtsolver2 9mo ago
  China claims parts of India, occupied some parts already in Ladakh, has conquered and subjugates Tibet, subjugates Xinjiang and has disputes with almost all other neighbors. As a person whose country is being threatened by China, I support the US. If China were as developed as the US, a lot of China’s threats would have been reality.
_zagj 9mo ago
Besides fear of populism, I think it reveals a genuine contempt for the United States on the part of Canada and Europe, one that past US presidents and policy makers have long overlooked and downplayed. Note that besides all of the territory China claims (as other responses have noted), including the entirety of the Taiwanese archipelago and islands within the territorial waters of the Philippines and Vietnam, China is the single largest purchaser of Russian energy, and it supplies Russia with drone parts and other restricted components, and also provides Russia with intelligence to better plan and execute strikes on Ukraine.
- palmotea 9mo ago
  > Besides fear of populism, I think it reveals a genuine contempt for the United States on the part of Canada and Europe, one that past US presidents and policy makers have long overlooked and downplayed. I think that's definitely a thing. What's the term? The narcissism of small differences? That contempt is there, and I've long felt it, and (unusually) I think it's also mirrored by some Americans. There are a lot of internal contradictions and tensions that Trump is bringing to the surface.
  - _zagj 9mo ago
    > The narcissism of small differences? Certain political parties (typically leftwing) in these countries will often leverage, if not outright foment, anti-Americanism for political gain. And then you have the external propaganda campaigns, most notably undertaken by the Soviet Union and later, the Russian Federation. The USSR also funded violent separatist movements, like the IRA and ETA, and propped up "pacifist" protest movements that curiously only ever protested the US and other NATO countries' militaries, disregarding the Eastern Block's military buildup. Today, Code Pink and other organizations run by power couple Neville Roy Singham (ThoughtWorks) and Jodie Evans do this on behalf of the CCP. Name-dropping them now is contentious, because FOXNews and other rightwing outlets have alleged a link to anti-ICE protests. But there was a lengthy NYT piece covering them and their pro-CCP activism back in 2023: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-china-propaganda.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-... > I think it's also mirrored by some Americans. It's surely reciprocated, but usually only by Americans who been exposed to enough anti-Americanism from these countries to wise up. The default attitude of Americans towards our allies is overwhelmingly positive: https://news.gallup.com/poll/472421/canada-britain-favored-russia-korea-least.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/472421/canada-britain-favored-r...

1over137 9mo ago

China is not publicly espousing conquering Canada and Greenland (Europe). Who would you choose, the people threatening to invade you, or the other guys?!?!

lostlogin 9mo ago
China is threatening invade other places, which are of more value to them.
- TheOtherHobbes 9mo ago
  It would not surprise me in the least to discover that China is the true source of the current internal attack on the US, and Russia is a cut out. It would be efficient for China to have Russia undermine the US while Russia also weakens itself. China has made huge inroads in Africa, which gives it access to essential metals and other raw materials, and also puts it in a strong position diplomatically.
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    If the root cause is external, it’s easier to stomach. But what if this is just America, attacking itself? That’s a lot harder.
  - somenameforme 9mo ago
    America's history is basically one long story of internal divisions, briefly overcome primarily during economic booms. The last economic boom, the computing/internet boom, was particularly long lived and helped create the longest window of internal stability we've had. That boom's coming to an end, and the era of stability it brought probably isn't that far behind. And this is before you even stop to consider things like social media which helps amp up and accelerate divisions by orders of magnitude.
- 1over137 9mo ago
  >China is threatening invade other places... Taiwan and where else?
  - lenerdenator 9mo ago
    Pretty much anything that happens to abut the South China Sea. I suppose you could also make the argument that they already did invade Tibet and Hong Kong, though that's splitting hairs.
    - RobotToaster 9mo ago
      Hong Kong was always Chinese, and was leased at gun point.
      - lenerdenator 9mo ago
        And now the agreement that they'd be given a more liberalistic government is being torn up at gun point.
      - lostlogin 9mo ago
        The government that leased it couldn’t really have less to do with the government that took it over in recent times. Things got considerably worse for Hong Kong, and the citizens didn’t want to join China. It’s certainly not a given that donating it to China was the right call.
        _carbyau_ 9mo ago
        > It’s certainly not a given that donating it to China was the right call. The right call for who? For the people there? Not good. For a contracting British empire facing a clearly growing-in-power China it was a graceful exit without military conflict.
        lostlogin 9mo ago
        Good point, maybe I have questions about the ‘graceful’ bit though.
thesmtsolver2 9mo ago
China claims parts of India, occupied some parts already in Ladakh, has conquered and subjugates Tibet, subjugates Xinjiang and has disputes with almost all other neighbors. As a person whose country is being threatened by China, I support the US. If China were as developed as the US, a lot of China’s threats would have been reality.

_zagj 9mo ago

Besides fear of populism, I think it reveals a genuine contempt for the United States on the part of Canada and Europe, one that past US presidents and policy makers have long overlooked and downplayed. Note that besides all of the territory China claims (as other responses have noted), including the entirety of the Taiwanese archipelago and islands within the territorial waters of the Philippines and Vietnam, China is the single largest purchaser of Russian energy, and it supplies Russia with drone parts and other restricted components, and also provides Russia with intelligence to better plan and execute strikes on Ukraine.

palmotea 9mo ago
> Besides fear of populism, I think it reveals a genuine contempt for the United States on the part of Canada and Europe, one that past US presidents and policy makers have long overlooked and downplayed. I think that's definitely a thing. What's the term? The narcissism of small differences? That contempt is there, and I've long felt it, and (unusually) I think it's also mirrored by some Americans. There are a lot of internal contradictions and tensions that Trump is bringing to the surface.
- _zagj 9mo ago
  > The narcissism of small differences? Certain political parties (typically leftwing) in these countries will often leverage, if not outright foment, anti-Americanism for political gain. And then you have the external propaganda campaigns, most notably undertaken by the Soviet Union and later, the Russian Federation. The USSR also funded violent separatist movements, like the IRA and ETA, and propped up "pacifist" protest movements that curiously only ever protested the US and other NATO countries' militaries, disregarding the Eastern Block's military buildup. Today, Code Pink and other organizations run by power couple Neville Roy Singham (ThoughtWorks) and Jodie Evans do this on behalf of the CCP. Name-dropping them now is contentious, because FOXNews and other rightwing outlets have alleged a link to anti-ICE protests. But there was a lengthy NYT piece covering them and their pro-CCP activism back in 2023: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-china-propaganda.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-... > I think it's also mirrored by some Americans. It's surely reciprocated, but usually only by Americans who been exposed to enough anti-Americanism from these countries to wise up. The default attitude of Americans towards our allies is overwhelmingly positive: https://news.gallup.com/poll/472421/canada-britain-favored-russia-korea-least.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/472421/canada-britain-favored-r...