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Case-in-point of why we shouldn't have approached China like we did over the last few decades. It normalized totalitarianism in some segments of Western society

Case-in-point of why we shouldn't have approached China like we did over the last few decades. It normalized totalitarianism in some segments of Western society.

pydry 9mo ago
If a large outside power is intent on screwing with your populace I think the only way to really stop it is with diplomacy or a crackdown on free speech. Authoritarianism has been starting to become normalized because China and Russia are increasingly able to mess with our society in the same way our leaders always messed with theirs.
- mistercheph 9mo ago
  True, true, so true. Actually when a large outside power is screwing with your populace you gotta crackdown on the whole constitution. Yep, that's the only solution i think, sign of the times, I guess!
  - iamnothere 9mo ago
    Unfortunately so. Niceties like civil rights and free elections were great before the rise of mortal enemies like Russia and China. Now we have to curtail those for a time to protect our democracy. Don’t worry, everything will return to normal one day. Pinky swear.
  - fogzen 9mo ago
    The U.S. government has not publicly presented any concrete evidence showing that TikTok has actually been used to influence US public opinion in line with CCP policy.
palmotea 9mo ago
> Case-in-point of why we shouldn't have approached China like we did over the last few decades. It normalized totalitarianism in some segments of Western society. An interesting thought I read a couple days ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/24/opinion/trump-carney-china-rupture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/24/opinion/trump-carney-chin...: > Finally, and most controversially, I suspect the same “if not America, then China” logic applies to political ordering as well. The United States under Trumpian conditions has allowed populism to come to power, bringing chaos and authoritarian behavior in its train. Recoil from that by all means — but recognize that it happened through democratic mechanisms, under freewheeling political conditions. > Meanwhile, the modes through which Europe and Canada have sought to suppress populism involve harsh restrictions on speech, elite collusion and other expression of managerial illiberalism. And what is China’s dictatorship if not managerial illiberalism in full flower? When European elites talk about China as a potentially more stable partner than the whipsawing United States, when they talk admiringly about its environmental goals and technocratic capacity, they aren’t defending a liberal alternative to Trumpian populism. They are letting the magnet of Chinese power draw them away from their own democratic traditions.
- 1over137 9mo ago
  China is not publicly espousing conquering Canada and Greenland (Europe). Who would you choose, the people threatening to invade you, or the other guys?!?!
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    China is threatening invade other places, which are of more value to them.
    - TheOtherHobbes 9mo ago
      It would not surprise me in the least to discover that China is the true source of the current internal attack on the US, and Russia is a cut out. It would be efficient for China to have Russia undermine the US while Russia also weakens itself. China has made huge inroads in Africa, which gives it access to essential metals and other raw materials, and also puts it in a strong position diplomatically.
      - lostlogin 9mo ago
        If the root cause is external, it’s easier to stomach. But what if this is just America, attacking itself? That’s a lot harder.
      - somenameforme 9mo ago
        America's history is basically one long story of internal divisions, briefly overcome primarily during economic booms. The last economic boom, the computing/internet boom, was particularly long lived and helped create the longest window of internal stability we've had. That boom's coming to an end, and the era of stability it brought probably isn't that far behind. And this is before you even stop to consider things like social media which helps amp up and accelerate divisions by orders of magnitude.
    - 1over137 9mo ago
      >China is threatening invade other places... Taiwan and where else?
thih9 9mo ago
I guess rest of the world should take notes and adjust the approach to China and those segments of Westerd society where totalitarianism got normalized.
euroderf 9mo ago
Oceania gets tech tips from Eastasia. Oceania has always gotten tech tips from Eastasia.
NoGravitas 9mo ago
America: does the usual American thing Americanly Commentators: What are we, some kind of Asians?
- lenerdenator 9mo ago
  That's... not what I'm saying? The US has traditionally had at least some counterweight to the state, in the form of a free press, free speech, opposition parties, checks and balances in branches of government, and an armed populace. The effectiveness of these measures has varied over time but there has never been a point when any single institution had control over the United States to the point that the CPC has control over mainland China. People are concerned that the US is taking an authoritarian bent under Trump, and many of the tactics being used would lead to a state far more similar to the PRC than the historical US.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    There still isn't. If a single institution had the level of control over the US that the CCP has over mainland China, you wouldn't be allowed to talk about it on HN, as Paul Graham would have his webserver license revoked for allowing it. Webserver licenses are a thing in China.
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      Although... Actually... There are many conspiracy theories that fit this description.
  - GaryBluto 9mo ago
    He's not engaging in a discussion with you, he's just re-posting a troll comment frequently spammed on various platforms whenever somebody discusses China. It's an attempt to turn a good faith discussion into a race debate.
mindtricks 9mo ago
I lived in China as an American a while back and had a similar take. Their ability to grow successfully and manage their populace definitely presented a new model to a lot of countries.
- mock-possum 9mo ago
  What does their treatment of the Uyghurs present to other countries?
  - sylos 9mo ago
    The opportunity to get rid of non-state sanctioned people and get free organs
- tw1984 9mo ago
  > presented a new model to a lot of countries. that is a common mistake. it is called the "If China can do it, I can do it too" symptom, which has been discussed like a million times on Chinese social media. interestingly, the biggest obstacle for other countries to repeat it is the fact that there is a country called China.
thrance 9mo ago
Why blame China? This dire situation is not on foreign nations seeking to destroy US democracy, it's entirely on domestic robber barons capturing the State for their own gains. China has very little soft power among the general population, while Musk, Ellison and the other propagandists run the show.
- autoexec 9mo ago
  Our domestic robber barons are building the capacity to monitor and control Americans in ways similar to those used by China to monitor and control their population. China isn't to blame, but they are a frightening example of where things are headed and they're giving the robber barons screwing us a blueprint to follow.
  - thrance 9mo ago
    Indeed, thankfully it seems this admin and its allies are nowhere near as competent and diligent as the CCP.

Case-in-point of why we shouldn't have approached China like we did over the last few decades. It normalized totalitarianism in some segments of Western society.

pydry 9mo ago

If a large outside power is intent on screwing with your populace I think the only way to really stop it is with diplomacy or a crackdown on free speech. Authoritarianism has been starting to become normalized because China and Russia are increasingly able to mess with our society in the same way our leaders always messed with theirs.

mistercheph 9mo ago
True, true, so true. Actually when a large outside power is screwing with your populace you gotta crackdown on the whole constitution. Yep, that's the only solution i think, sign of the times, I guess!
- iamnothere 9mo ago
  Unfortunately so. Niceties like civil rights and free elections were great before the rise of mortal enemies like Russia and China. Now we have to curtail those for a time to protect our democracy. Don’t worry, everything will return to normal one day. Pinky swear.
- fogzen 9mo ago
  The U.S. government has not publicly presented any concrete evidence showing that TikTok has actually been used to influence US public opinion in line with CCP policy.

palmotea 9mo ago

> Case-in-point of why we shouldn't have approached China like we did over the last few decades. It normalized totalitarianism in some segments of Western society. An interesting thought I read a couple days ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/24/opinion/trump-carney-china-rupture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/24/opinion/trump-carney-chin...: > Finally, and most controversially, I suspect the same “if not America, then China” logic applies to political ordering as well. The United States under Trumpian conditions has allowed populism to come to power, bringing chaos and authoritarian behavior in its train. Recoil from that by all means — but recognize that it happened through democratic mechanisms, under freewheeling political conditions. > Meanwhile, the modes through which Europe and Canada have sought to suppress populism involve harsh restrictions on speech, elite collusion and other expression of managerial illiberalism. And what is China’s dictatorship if not managerial illiberalism in full flower? When European elites talk about China as a potentially more stable partner than the whipsawing United States, when they talk admiringly about its environmental goals and technocratic capacity, they aren’t defending a liberal alternative to Trumpian populism. They are letting the magnet of Chinese power draw them away from their own democratic traditions.

1over137 9mo ago
China is not publicly espousing conquering Canada and Greenland (Europe). Who would you choose, the people threatening to invade you, or the other guys?!?!
- lostlogin 9mo ago
  China is threatening invade other places, which are of more value to them.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9mo ago
    It would not surprise me in the least to discover that China is the true source of the current internal attack on the US, and Russia is a cut out. It would be efficient for China to have Russia undermine the US while Russia also weakens itself. China has made huge inroads in Africa, which gives it access to essential metals and other raw materials, and also puts it in a strong position diplomatically.
    - lostlogin 9mo ago
      If the root cause is external, it’s easier to stomach. But what if this is just America, attacking itself? That’s a lot harder.
    - somenameforme 9mo ago
      America's history is basically one long story of internal divisions, briefly overcome primarily during economic booms. The last economic boom, the computing/internet boom, was particularly long lived and helped create the longest window of internal stability we've had. That boom's coming to an end, and the era of stability it brought probably isn't that far behind. And this is before you even stop to consider things like social media which helps amp up and accelerate divisions by orders of magnitude.
  - 1over137 9mo ago
    >China is threatening invade other places... Taiwan and where else?

thih9 9mo ago

I guess rest of the world should take notes and adjust the approach to China and those segments of Westerd society where totalitarianism got normalized.

euroderf 9mo ago

Oceania gets tech tips from Eastasia. Oceania has always gotten tech tips from Eastasia.

NoGravitas 9mo ago

America: does the usual American thing Americanly Commentators: What are we, some kind of Asians?

lenerdenator 9mo ago
That's... not what I'm saying? The US has traditionally had at least some counterweight to the state, in the form of a free press, free speech, opposition parties, checks and balances in branches of government, and an armed populace. The effectiveness of these measures has varied over time but there has never been a point when any single institution had control over the United States to the point that the CPC has control over mainland China. People are concerned that the US is taking an authoritarian bent under Trump, and many of the tactics being used would lead to a state far more similar to the PRC than the historical US.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  There still isn't. If a single institution had the level of control over the US that the CCP has over mainland China, you wouldn't be allowed to talk about it on HN, as Paul Graham would have his webserver license revoked for allowing it. Webserver licenses are a thing in China.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    Although... Actually... There are many conspiracy theories that fit this description.
- GaryBluto 9mo ago
  He's not engaging in a discussion with you, he's just re-posting a troll comment frequently spammed on various platforms whenever somebody discusses China. It's an attempt to turn a good faith discussion into a race debate.

mindtricks 9mo ago

I lived in China as an American a while back and had a similar take. Their ability to grow successfully and manage their populace definitely presented a new model to a lot of countries.

mock-possum 9mo ago
What does their treatment of the Uyghurs present to other countries?
- sylos 9mo ago
  The opportunity to get rid of non-state sanctioned people and get free organs
tw1984 9mo ago
> presented a new model to a lot of countries. that is a common mistake. it is called the "If China can do it, I can do it too" symptom, which has been discussed like a million times on Chinese social media. interestingly, the biggest obstacle for other countries to repeat it is the fact that there is a country called China.

thrance 9mo ago

Why blame China? This dire situation is not on foreign nations seeking to destroy US democracy, it's entirely on domestic robber barons capturing the State for their own gains. China has very little soft power among the general population, while Musk, Ellison and the other propagandists run the show.

autoexec 9mo ago
Our domestic robber barons are building the capacity to monitor and control Americans in ways similar to those used by China to monitor and control their population. China isn't to blame, but they are a frightening example of where things are headed and they're giving the robber barons screwing us a blueprint to follow.
- thrance 9mo ago
  Indeed, thankfully it seems this admin and its allies are nowhere near as competent and diligent as the CCP.