4 ms·

I am not sure why this was flagged but I don’t think it’s wrong. I am not sure if it’s a uniquely American thing but the internet has caused an unfortunate case

by infecto 9mo ago

I am not sure why this was flagged but I don’t think it’s wrong. I am not sure if it’s a uniquely American thing but the internet has caused an unfortunate case of brigading for almost anything. I like to think I sit fairly middle in a lot of American topics I lean left on some items, taxes, healthcare, free school lunches and right on others but I remember how easy it was a number of years ago to be labeled a racist. You really cannot have an opinion about much these days without someone labeling you something unfavorably. It’s unfortunate.

JKCalhoun 9mo ago
"Labelling" is different than censorship though, no?
- infecto 9mo ago
  I think it’s all part of the same culture of brigading. My comment was more an extension of thought to the parents that America has gone down a hole where dialogue no longer exists.
lyu07282 9mo ago
[flagged]
- infecto 9mo ago
  I am going to vouch for this comment because this is a great example of what I was describing. People jump to whatever conclusion they want and you are either with them or without. It’s sad what has come to be in society.
  - dmit 9mo ago
    People jump to the conclusion because a lot of the time they've had this exact argument already, and they know how it tends to end. Proclaiming oneself a centrist might seem like a noble, moderate position. But in 2026, with the Overton window basically being shifted outside the frame?
    - infecto 9mo ago
      What argument are we having? I see someone struggling to hold their own words steady, and you claiming that I am proclaiming something when I only mentioned it because of this exact problem. I do not really think of myself as left or right within the current American political system. I do not follow either political party, and my opinions often zig zag across existing party lines. If anything, maybe “centrist” is the wrong or overly loaded word. I do not follow any particular political movement in America. The point still stands brigading is a massive problem in America.
      - dmit 9mo ago
        I'm not having an argument. I was just trying to explain that "I'm not left or right" sounds like "I am perfectly fine with how things are right now" to the people who think the current state of things is an absolute disaster.
        infecto 9mo ago
        > they've had this exact argument Maybe it’s not obvious but you compared the thread to an argument. I see no argument. Just a boneheaded reply from someone which was a great example of exactly what I was describing. Your follow up is pretty on point too, somehow we go from the topic of brigading to maybe me being ok with the current state of things. This is a really great example of the problem I was describing. Thank you.
      - nomdep 9mo ago
        He is accusing you of not beign "leftist enough", which he regards the same as beign a traitor to the "good" side
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
        dmit 9mo ago
        Do I need to be present for this thread, or are you capable of projecting the rest all on your own?
pjc50 9mo ago
Ironically, "labelling" someone else is an act of free speech as much as anything else.
- infecto 9mo ago
  I don’t think it’s ironic and my point was not the act of labeling itself but more of how America has become a brigading culture. Free speech should be protected, even for things that we know are wrong but we have this decay of the internet and culture where you are either with someone or against them.
  - pjc50 9mo ago
    But that's my point: what you call "brigading" is other people using their free speech in a way you don't like.
    - infecto 9mo ago
      I think we are talking past each other a bit. I am not objecting to people expressing disagreement or labeling as an abstract exercise of free speech. I am pointing to a pattern that has become common online where disagreement quickly turns into coordinated pile-ons, identity assignment, and social signaling rather than substantive engagement with the argument itself. Free speech protects the right to do that, but it does not mean the behavior is healthy or productive. When discourse collapses into binary alignment where nuance is treated as hostility, it discourages honest participation and pushes people toward silence or extremes. So yes, others are exercising free speech. My concern is about the cultural outcome of how that speech is increasingly used, not whether it is permitted. Increasingly society in America is either you are with us or not and at least for me my view of the world is more nuanced and day to day.
      - ImPostingOnHN 9mo ago
        > I am pointing to a pattern that has become common online where disagreement quickly turns into coordinated pile-ons, identity assignment, and social signaling rather than substantive engagement with the argument itself. It's easy to fall prey to the fallacy that disagreement with you means the disagreers are failing to engage substantively to the topic, and are simply "social signaling". It's easy to dismiss many people disagreeing with you as a "coordinated pile on". In my experience, these accusations are usually a result of the "piled on"'s failure to understand and consider the others' perspective, and their unwillingness to change their mind. Not to say that they must understand and consider others' perspectives, or that they must be willing to change their mind either! But engaging with a society means facing social pressure to conform with social norms. There's always not engaging with society in any meaningful way, as an option.
watwut 9mo ago
> You really cannot have an opinion about much these days without someone labeling you something unfavorably. It’s unfortunate. That is free speech. And the violence you see is direct consequence of a culture that tuts tuts "this is rude" when someone says "these right wing people are fascists" rather then look at what those right wing people openly talk about.
- infecto 9mo ago
  It is but you’re missing the point. Just because something is free speech does not make it any less unfortunate. It’s pretty clear in some of the threads here how polarizing things have become.

by infecto 9mo ago

JKCalhoun 9mo ago

"Labelling" is different than censorship though, no?

infecto 9mo ago
I think it’s all part of the same culture of brigading. My comment was more an extension of thought to the parents that America has gone down a hole where dialogue no longer exists.

lyu07282 9mo ago

[flagged]

infecto 9mo ago
I am going to vouch for this comment because this is a great example of what I was describing. People jump to whatever conclusion they want and you are either with them or without. It’s sad what has come to be in society.
- dmit 9mo ago
  People jump to the conclusion because a lot of the time they've had this exact argument already, and they know how it tends to end. Proclaiming oneself a centrist might seem like a noble, moderate position. But in 2026, with the Overton window basically being shifted outside the frame?
  - infecto 9mo ago
    What argument are we having? I see someone struggling to hold their own words steady, and you claiming that I am proclaiming something when I only mentioned it because of this exact problem. I do not really think of myself as left or right within the current American political system. I do not follow either political party, and my opinions often zig zag across existing party lines. If anything, maybe “centrist” is the wrong or overly loaded word. I do not follow any particular political movement in America. The point still stands brigading is a massive problem in America.
    - dmit 9mo ago
      I'm not having an argument. I was just trying to explain that "I'm not left or right" sounds like "I am perfectly fine with how things are right now" to the people who think the current state of things is an absolute disaster.
      - infecto 9mo ago
        > they've had this exact argument Maybe it’s not obvious but you compared the thread to an argument. I see no argument. Just a boneheaded reply from someone which was a great example of exactly what I was describing. Your follow up is pretty on point too, somehow we go from the topic of brigading to maybe me being ok with the current state of things. This is a really great example of the problem I was describing. Thank you.
    - nomdep 9mo ago
      He is accusing you of not beign "leftist enough", which he regards the same as beign a traitor to the "good" side
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
      - dmit 9mo ago
        Do I need to be present for this thread, or are you capable of projecting the rest all on your own?

pjc50 9mo ago

Ironically, "labelling" someone else is an act of free speech as much as anything else.

infecto 9mo ago
I don’t think it’s ironic and my point was not the act of labeling itself but more of how America has become a brigading culture. Free speech should be protected, even for things that we know are wrong but we have this decay of the internet and culture where you are either with someone or against them.
- pjc50 9mo ago
  But that's my point: what you call "brigading" is other people using their free speech in a way you don't like.
  - infecto 9mo ago
    I think we are talking past each other a bit. I am not objecting to people expressing disagreement or labeling as an abstract exercise of free speech. I am pointing to a pattern that has become common online where disagreement quickly turns into coordinated pile-ons, identity assignment, and social signaling rather than substantive engagement with the argument itself. Free speech protects the right to do that, but it does not mean the behavior is healthy or productive. When discourse collapses into binary alignment where nuance is treated as hostility, it discourages honest participation and pushes people toward silence or extremes. So yes, others are exercising free speech. My concern is about the cultural outcome of how that speech is increasingly used, not whether it is permitted. Increasingly society in America is either you are with us or not and at least for me my view of the world is more nuanced and day to day.
    - ImPostingOnHN 9mo ago
      > I am pointing to a pattern that has become common online where disagreement quickly turns into coordinated pile-ons, identity assignment, and social signaling rather than substantive engagement with the argument itself. It's easy to fall prey to the fallacy that disagreement with you means the disagreers are failing to engage substantively to the topic, and are simply "social signaling". It's easy to dismiss many people disagreeing with you as a "coordinated pile on". In my experience, these accusations are usually a result of the "piled on"'s failure to understand and consider the others' perspective, and their unwillingness to change their mind. Not to say that they must understand and consider others' perspectives, or that they must be willing to change their mind either! But engaging with a society means facing social pressure to conform with social norms. There's always not engaging with society in any meaningful way, as an option.

watwut 9mo ago

> You really cannot have an opinion about much these days without someone labeling you something unfavorably. It’s unfortunate. That is free speech. And the violence you see is direct consequence of a culture that tuts tuts "this is rude" when someone says "these right wing people are fascists" rather then look at what those right wing people openly talk about.

infecto 9mo ago
It is but you’re missing the point. Just because something is free speech does not make it any less unfortunate. It’s pretty clear in some of the threads here how polarizing things have become.