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> But you don't know what kind of dissenting opinions they're deleting, because you're not looking at it! How do you know they don't just leave the "accepted" d

> But you don't know what kind of dissenting opinions they're deleting, because you're not looking at it! How do you know they don't just leave the "accepted" dissent, and delete anything that goes beyond that? This would completely change whether the subreddit is representative, and you would have no idea. And again: that is exactly what I've seen. Well, this is where our experiences differ, because I've been observing that sub for years, and I've seen the threads and comments that get deleted, and I don't think it changes much in the way you do. If they only deleted comments from comments on the left, I think the sub would still be representative, maybe less so, but still so. > Not only do those mods explicitly state that they delete comments by Trump supporters that show strong dissent, multiple long-time TS there have eventually admitted to playing a role, trying to make conservatives look as bad as possible. Do you think any subs are representative? Do you think all the numerous people defending the murder of Renee Good and defending ICE were bots? What about X, or Gab, where it's easy to find mass opinions mirroring those subs?

Timon3 9mo ago
> If they only deleted comments from comments on the left, I think the sub would still be representative, maybe less so, but still so. If they stopped deleting comments by conservatives, it would be less representative than it is now when they're also broadly deleting dissent from conservatives? How does this make sense?
- JCattheATM 9mo ago
  Because the deleted dissent is not so great in number as to change the sub from being representative to non-representative. Let me ask you again: Do you think any subs are representative of conservatives? Do you think all the numerous people defending the murder of Renee Good and defending ICE were bots? What about X, or Gab, where it's easy to find mass opinions mirroring those subs? Where is the conservative home on the internet where everyone is against what is happening?
  - Timon3 9mo ago
    > Because the deleted dissent is not so great in number as to change the sub from being representative to non-representative. That does not relate to the question I asked. You said that the sub would be less representative if they stopped deleting conservative dissent. How would it be less representative?
    - JCattheATM 9mo ago
      I said "If they only deleted comments from comments on the left, I think the sub would still be representative, maybe less so, but still so." My point was it might show more variation, but would still overwhelmingly match the view on other social media platforms and published works from media sources that align. The only crack has been with Alex Pretti having a gun because of 2A fanaticism, there was no significant dissent regarding the murder of Renee Good, for example. Now, a third time, let me ask you again: Do you think any subs are representative of conservatives? Do you think all the numerous people defending the murder of Renee Good and defending ICE were bots? What about X, or Gab, where it's easy to find mass opinions mirroring those subs? Where is the conservative home on the internet where everyone is against what is happening?
      - Timon3 9mo ago
        > I said "If they only deleted comments from comments on the left, I think the sub would still be representative, maybe less so, but still so." Exactly, do you not see the logical contradiction? As we both agree, they currently delete comments from both "the left" and dissenting conservatives. The only change in your proposed scenario is that they stop deleting comments from dissenting conservatives. How can the sub be less representative in that scenario? > Now, a third time, let me ask you again: Do you think any subs are representative of conservatives? I have no idea! I haven't spent any time looking at other conservative subs than the two you mentioned. How should I know? > Do you think all the numerous people defending the murder of Renee Good and defending ICE were bots? No? > What about X, or Gab, where it's easy to find mass opinions mirroring those subs? No? > Where is the conservative home on the internet where everyone is against what is happening? I have no idea, why are you asking me like I should know? ----- I get the very strong impression that you think I'm trying to make some bigger argument about the opinions present in the current conservative movement in the US. I am not. All I'm saying is: the community you're pointing at is objectively not representative of the opinions of its users because it's heavily moderated and propagandized. By arguing that it still is representative, you're legitimizing this propaganda. Instead of accusing people who present counterarguments of being aligned with the conservative movement (I am very much not, and you can check my comment history to see that I've been arguing against them for years), maybe take a step back and consider the effect of what you're doing?
estearum 9mo ago
> Do you think any subs are representative? Easy: Probably not. You definitely don't have any rational reason to assume any sub is actually representative of any group.
- JCattheATM 9mo ago
  Please stop replying to me. I don't value your input and you clearly don't value mine, so why continue? I'm not trying to discuss anything with you, please stop trying to force discussions with me.
  - estearum 9mo ago
    It may come as a surprise, but other people read forums. In fact, the vast majority of users read and do not write. While I understand you do not wish to have any contrary contributions made to your thinking, I am making a productive contribution for the many readers here who may be grappling with this issue themselves. Of course you are welcome to converse on a non-forum format if you wish to have private conversations and to have total control over who may respond to you. I personally have a vested interest in a society that's more rather than less capable of understanding reality, and using appropriate tools to do so, so I'll continue to contribute toward that end.
    - JCattheATM 9mo ago
      > While I understand you do not wish to have any contrary contributions made to your thinking That's not the case at all, in fact, I love that, a critical analysis is necessary to establishing truth. You're not doing that though. You've resorted to insults more than once, and you just tow the line to defend conservatives, it's impossible to have a productive discussion with you because your bias/motive is pushing everything, not a desire for truth. Keep spreading your nonsense/disinformation I guess, since I can't stop it, and I'll just do my best to ignore it. I would however recommend some self-reflection, as petty little obsessions like this are far from healthy.
      - 9mo ago

Timon3 9mo ago

> If they only deleted comments from comments on the left, I think the sub would still be representative, maybe less so, but still so. If they stopped deleting comments by conservatives, it would be less representative than it is now when they're also broadly deleting dissent from conservatives? How does this make sense?

JCattheATM 9mo ago
Because the deleted dissent is not so great in number as to change the sub from being representative to non-representative. Let me ask you again: Do you think any subs are representative of conservatives? Do you think all the numerous people defending the murder of Renee Good and defending ICE were bots? What about X, or Gab, where it's easy to find mass opinions mirroring those subs? Where is the conservative home on the internet where everyone is against what is happening?
- Timon3 9mo ago
  > Because the deleted dissent is not so great in number as to change the sub from being representative to non-representative. That does not relate to the question I asked. You said that the sub would be less representative if they stopped deleting conservative dissent. How would it be less representative?
  - JCattheATM 9mo ago
    I said "If they only deleted comments from comments on the left, I think the sub would still be representative, maybe less so, but still so." My point was it might show more variation, but would still overwhelmingly match the view on other social media platforms and published works from media sources that align. The only crack has been with Alex Pretti having a gun because of 2A fanaticism, there was no significant dissent regarding the murder of Renee Good, for example. Now, a third time, let me ask you again: Do you think any subs are representative of conservatives? Do you think all the numerous people defending the murder of Renee Good and defending ICE were bots? What about X, or Gab, where it's easy to find mass opinions mirroring those subs? Where is the conservative home on the internet where everyone is against what is happening?
    - Timon3 9mo ago
      > I said "If they only deleted comments from comments on the left, I think the sub would still be representative, maybe less so, but still so." Exactly, do you not see the logical contradiction? As we both agree, they currently delete comments from both "the left" and dissenting conservatives. The only change in your proposed scenario is that they stop deleting comments from dissenting conservatives. How can the sub be less representative in that scenario? > Now, a third time, let me ask you again: Do you think any subs are representative of conservatives? I have no idea! I haven't spent any time looking at other conservative subs than the two you mentioned. How should I know? > Do you think all the numerous people defending the murder of Renee Good and defending ICE were bots? No? > What about X, or Gab, where it's easy to find mass opinions mirroring those subs? No? > Where is the conservative home on the internet where everyone is against what is happening? I have no idea, why are you asking me like I should know? ----- I get the very strong impression that you think I'm trying to make some bigger argument about the opinions present in the current conservative movement in the US. I am not. All I'm saying is: the community you're pointing at is objectively not representative of the opinions of its users because it's heavily moderated and propagandized. By arguing that it still is representative, you're legitimizing this propaganda. Instead of accusing people who present counterarguments of being aligned with the conservative movement (I am very much not, and you can check my comment history to see that I've been arguing against them for years), maybe take a step back and consider the effect of what you're doing?

estearum 9mo ago

> Do you think any subs are representative? Easy: Probably not. You definitely don't have any rational reason to assume any sub is actually representative of any group.

JCattheATM 9mo ago
Please stop replying to me. I don't value your input and you clearly don't value mine, so why continue? I'm not trying to discuss anything with you, please stop trying to force discussions with me.
- estearum 9mo ago
  It may come as a surprise, but other people read forums. In fact, the vast majority of users read and do not write. While I understand you do not wish to have any contrary contributions made to your thinking, I am making a productive contribution for the many readers here who may be grappling with this issue themselves. Of course you are welcome to converse on a non-forum format if you wish to have private conversations and to have total control over who may respond to you. I personally have a vested interest in a society that's more rather than less capable of understanding reality, and using appropriate tools to do so, so I'll continue to contribute toward that end.
  - JCattheATM 9mo ago
    > While I understand you do not wish to have any contrary contributions made to your thinking That's not the case at all, in fact, I love that, a critical analysis is necessary to establishing truth. You're not doing that though. You've resorted to insults more than once, and you just tow the line to defend conservatives, it's impossible to have a productive discussion with you because your bias/motive is pushing everything, not a desire for truth. Keep spreading your nonsense/disinformation I guess, since I can't stop it, and I'll just do my best to ignore it. I would however recommend some self-reflection, as petty little obsessions like this are far from healthy.
    - 9mo ago