4 ms·

> It's like, really ? Do they seriously think someone who should answer yes will really answer yes ? No, they do not think anyone will check 'Yes' to that box.

> It's like, really ? Do they seriously think someone who should answer yes will really answer yes ? No, they do not think anyone will check 'Yes' to that box. The purpose of the box is that it's a crime to lie when someone checks 'No', and that tends to be an easy charge to bring. So, the purpose of the form is to generate convictions for lying on the form.

traceroute66 9mo ago
> the purpose of the form is to generate convictions for lying on the form. Yeah but if the immigration officer has reason to question you about those sections of the form then surely they have more than enough evidence of the underlying crime anyway ?
- labcomputer 9mo ago
  No they’re playing the long game. It’s for if they need to deport (and/or jail) you later. Lying on a customs form is a valid reason to revoke a visa, and it’s an open and shut case.
  - fc417fc802 9mo ago
    Is traveling to the US for the purpose of engaging in espionage not also a valid reason to revoke a visa?
    - hex4def6 9mo ago
      Yes. And murder is illegal. And yet, Al Capone was in Alcatraz on tax evasion charges.
    - ncallaway 9mo ago
      It’s often an easier case to prove that you lied on the form when you said you came to the US with no intent to commit espionage than it is to prove that someone committed espionage. It basically unlocks a second set of potential facts that they can use to bring a criminal case (or revoke a visa, etc).
- HWR_14 9mo ago
  Intent to commit espionage is not a crime (but committing or attempting to commit it is) Lying on the form is. It is probably easier to demonstrate intent to commit espionage than to catch them in the act.
voxic11 9mo ago
Wouldn't it be easier to make those things illegal and then prosecute them instead of the lie? For prosecuting a lie you need to prove 2 things, the thing lied about and the lie itself, so it seems like a more difficult prosecution for no reason. Also how does every other country in the world manage to not have these questions?
- rayiner 9mo ago
  That crime alone wouldn’t give you a basis for denaturalizing and deporting people who commit certain kinds of crimes.
- sidewndr46 9mo ago
  This is what happens when a legal system and a political system is taken over by specialists with little to no other skills. Instead of politics being about setting policy to work toward desire outcomes, politics becomes about ensuring the viability of future political processes. Instead of the legal system being about defining crime, establishing punishment and carrying out said punishments it becomes about ensnaring others in legal "gotcha" moments like lying on a form. Society is not safer because of the outlawed nature of lying on a form. Society is not better off because someone is convicted of lying on a form. The individuals who participate in the prosecution are better off because it gives them an opportunity to advance their career.
- pixl97 9mo ago
  > Also how does every other country in the world manage to not have these questions? You sure about that? Many other countries have what would be considered odd questions on their forms. Also, saying "every other country" is a mighty wide brush. There are a whole lot of countries where the rule of law doesn't come first and they can simply do what they want if they suspect you of anything regardless if they have a law or not.

traceroute66 9mo ago

> the purpose of the form is to generate convictions for lying on the form. Yeah but if the immigration officer has reason to question you about those sections of the form then surely they have more than enough evidence of the underlying crime anyway ?

labcomputer 9mo ago
No they’re playing the long game. It’s for if they need to deport (and/or jail) you later. Lying on a customs form is a valid reason to revoke a visa, and it’s an open and shut case.
- fc417fc802 9mo ago
  Is traveling to the US for the purpose of engaging in espionage not also a valid reason to revoke a visa?
  - hex4def6 9mo ago
    Yes. And murder is illegal. And yet, Al Capone was in Alcatraz on tax evasion charges.
  - ncallaway 9mo ago
    It’s often an easier case to prove that you lied on the form when you said you came to the US with no intent to commit espionage than it is to prove that someone committed espionage. It basically unlocks a second set of potential facts that they can use to bring a criminal case (or revoke a visa, etc).
HWR_14 9mo ago
Intent to commit espionage is not a crime (but committing or attempting to commit it is) Lying on the form is. It is probably easier to demonstrate intent to commit espionage than to catch them in the act.

voxic11 9mo ago

Wouldn't it be easier to make those things illegal and then prosecute them instead of the lie? For prosecuting a lie you need to prove 2 things, the thing lied about and the lie itself, so it seems like a more difficult prosecution for no reason. Also how does every other country in the world manage to not have these questions?

rayiner 9mo ago
That crime alone wouldn’t give you a basis for denaturalizing and deporting people who commit certain kinds of crimes.
sidewndr46 9mo ago
This is what happens when a legal system and a political system is taken over by specialists with little to no other skills. Instead of politics being about setting policy to work toward desire outcomes, politics becomes about ensuring the viability of future political processes. Instead of the legal system being about defining crime, establishing punishment and carrying out said punishments it becomes about ensnaring others in legal "gotcha" moments like lying on a form. Society is not safer because of the outlawed nature of lying on a form. Society is not better off because someone is convicted of lying on a form. The individuals who participate in the prosecution are better off because it gives them an opportunity to advance their career.
pixl97 9mo ago
> Also how does every other country in the world manage to not have these questions? You sure about that? Many other countries have what would be considered odd questions on their forms. Also, saying "every other country" is a mighty wide brush. There are a whole lot of countries where the rule of law doesn't come first and they can simply do what they want if they suspect you of anything regardless if they have a law or not.