3 ms·

Wow, the "to:" line of that mail makes me reevaluate: I had been interpreting "SV" as mere metonym, but maybe there is indeed an actual SV "movement". Linebarg

Wow, the "to:" line of that mail makes me reevaluate: I had been interpreting "SV" as mere metonym, but maybe there is indeed an actual SV "movement". Linebarger says https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#:~:text=In%20the%20language%20of,of%20their%20own%2e%22 https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#:~... ; Goldstein says https://matiane.wordpress.com/2021/01/12/emmanuel-goldstein-theory-and-practice-of-oligarchical-collectivism-by-george-orwell/#:~:text=Between%20the%20two,them%20to%20rise%2e https://matiane.wordpress.com/2021/01/12/emmanuel-goldstein-... ; Thiel says "If you proletarianize the young people, you shouldn’t be surprised if they eventually become communist."

gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
This SV you speak of seems to have their own [upper-middle "Harvard-Stanford"] version/vision of the Linebarger steamroller. Compare: you decided the IP will always be made of bigots (by construction? "I trust [Linebarger], just not the devil [/prepster:] inside him" :) I'm guessing they (ditto alphn,PH) are not (openly?) defecting to the global murine movement because they figure their steamroller has a shot against the steamroller of the current IP (somewhat like the UK IP-branch?) How about Merz? Is he IP, or are (some of) the people thumbing their noses at his BlackRock connections IP? https://wid.world/www-site/uploads/2024/02/WorldInequalityLab_WP2024_06_Political-cleavages-in-Greece-1981-2019_Final.pdf https://wid.world/www-site/uploads/2024/02/WorldInequalityLa... The only other country documented to have a historical Brahmin left is Japan (see Gethin et al. 2021, Chapter 11). Peter might be interested in the history of the Japanese salarymen :)
- aebtebeten 9mo ago
  I think I first need to reflect and refine my models of IP/UC/sociopath, as they aren't as aligned as I had naively ascribed. IP vs OP - head vs hands, but still ideological UC vs MC - being vs doing, no longer necessarily ideological sociopath vs clueless - transactional vs company good, no longer ideological (does IngSoc even have an Upper Class? Goldstein doesn't think so, but maybe that's part of Orwell's model: an oligarchy is only open to failure if a significant fraction of them has stopped {believing in themselves, getting high on their own supply}? It can certainly have sociopaths —indeed, O'Brien is presented as such— but they must outwardly toe the line ... a situation perhaps made easier because they create the line, and therefore its exceptions: "but some animals are more equal than others") What specifically about the history of the salaryman? (frex it does seem to slightly predate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Managerial_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Managerial_Revolution )
  - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
    Ah oops public salaryman (maybe even from recently de-samurai'd lineages) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanbetsu#:~:text=Sanbetsu%20was%20organized,%5B2%5D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanbetsu#:~:text=Sanbetsu%20wa... (reminded from the Greek poli-cleavage) While you work out your endpoints, I'd like to make use of another (contrived) contranym to troll "SV" (poorly! Surrey!!) For a (compassionate) mensch to specialise in sharp-bigotry, all it takes is the temptation of upper mid^W (EDITED (4+1)x) joy (After Steve Weinberg) Does that a model of a Linebarger steamroller by it's very schleppiness make? (Update: note, no ideology required!) PS: Algolia-fu fails me of your story of grabbing wife's shoulders BC she was disturbed by your having parked in a less than spiffy neighborhood (I'm trying to lead you to the idea of sharp bigotry, but not necessarily grabbing your shoulders yet :) PPS: for later-- perhaps I should put in EAB into the canon, BC he seems to have done penance^W^W been martyred for the (original) sin of being^W feeling solidarity with the uppermid post- The correct and elegant thing, I felt, was to be of gentle birth but to have no money.
    - aebtebeten 9mo ago
      very interesting, especially given the context of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Course ! defo EAB! I had been searching for parallel construction of "one doesn't even have to believe in capitalism to benefit from being upper class" as an example of how ideology is strongest in the middle of the class system, but he's put it nicely: "we took it for granted that we could continue to draw our dividends or tumble into soft jobs, but also it seemed natural to us to be ‘agin the Government’."
      - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
        Minor Pedantic correction De-"Shizoku" was 1947 by constitution but perhaps the white collar samurais saw what was coming
        aebtebeten 9mo ago
        Hmmm... have to mix up Plato's Republic and its Guardians, De-Shizoku'd De-Samuraied lefty anime, and JJ's political (but not commercial) syndrome. White vs blue collar cleavages can be pretty clear cut: do you shower before or after going to work? do you wash hands before or after using a urinal? etc. (on TFA, are "pink collar" occupations particularly impacted by AI? I'd think nurses would actually be pro-AI, as their memes involve hospitals believing paperwork to be more important than patient work...) lagniappe: https://thunderdungeon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/nursing-memes-10-03-11-2023.jpg https://thunderdungeon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/nursin...

gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago

This SV you speak of seems to have their own [upper-middle "Harvard-Stanford"] version/vision of the Linebarger steamroller. Compare: you decided the IP will always be made of bigots (by construction? "I trust [Linebarger], just not the devil [/prepster:] inside him" :) I'm guessing they (ditto alphn,PH) are not (openly?) defecting to the global murine movement because they figure their steamroller has a shot against the steamroller of the current IP (somewhat like the UK IP-branch?) How about Merz? Is he IP, or are (some of) the people thumbing their noses at his BlackRock connections IP? https://wid.world/www-site/uploads/2024/02/WorldInequalityLab_WP2024_06_Political-cleavages-in-Greece-1981-2019_Final.pdf https://wid.world/www-site/uploads/2024/02/WorldInequalityLa... The only other country documented to have a historical Brahmin left is Japan (see Gethin et al. 2021, Chapter 11). Peter might be interested in the history of the Japanese salarymen :)

aebtebeten 9mo ago
I think I first need to reflect and refine my models of IP/UC/sociopath, as they aren't as aligned as I had naively ascribed. IP vs OP - head vs hands, but still ideological UC vs MC - being vs doing, no longer necessarily ideological sociopath vs clueless - transactional vs company good, no longer ideological (does IngSoc even have an Upper Class? Goldstein doesn't think so, but maybe that's part of Orwell's model: an oligarchy is only open to failure if a significant fraction of them has stopped {believing in themselves, getting high on their own supply}? It can certainly have sociopaths —indeed, O'Brien is presented as such— but they must outwardly toe the line ... a situation perhaps made easier because they create the line, and therefore its exceptions: "but some animals are more equal than others") What specifically about the history of the salaryman? (frex it does seem to slightly predate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Managerial_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Managerial_Revolution )
- gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
  Ah oops public salaryman (maybe even from recently de-samurai'd lineages) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanbetsu#:~:text=Sanbetsu%20was%20organized,%5B2%5D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanbetsu#:~:text=Sanbetsu%20wa... (reminded from the Greek poli-cleavage) While you work out your endpoints, I'd like to make use of another (contrived) contranym to troll "SV" (poorly! Surrey!!) For a (compassionate) mensch to specialise in sharp-bigotry, all it takes is the temptation of upper mid^W (EDITED (4+1)x) joy (After Steve Weinberg) Does that a model of a Linebarger steamroller by it's very schleppiness make? (Update: note, no ideology required!) PS: Algolia-fu fails me of your story of grabbing wife's shoulders BC she was disturbed by your having parked in a less than spiffy neighborhood (I'm trying to lead you to the idea of sharp bigotry, but not necessarily grabbing your shoulders yet :) PPS: for later-- perhaps I should put in EAB into the canon, BC he seems to have done penance^W^W been martyred for the (original) sin of being^W feeling solidarity with the uppermid post- The correct and elegant thing, I felt, was to be of gentle birth but to have no money.
  - aebtebeten 9mo ago
    very interesting, especially given the context of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Course ! defo EAB! I had been searching for parallel construction of "one doesn't even have to believe in capitalism to benefit from being upper class" as an example of how ideology is strongest in the middle of the class system, but he's put it nicely: "we took it for granted that we could continue to draw our dividends or tumble into soft jobs, but also it seemed natural to us to be ‘agin the Government’."
    - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
      Minor Pedantic correction De-"Shizoku" was 1947 by constitution but perhaps the white collar samurais saw what was coming
      - aebtebeten 9mo ago
        Hmmm... have to mix up Plato's Republic and its Guardians, De-Shizoku'd De-Samuraied lefty anime, and JJ's political (but not commercial) syndrome. White vs blue collar cleavages can be pretty clear cut: do you shower before or after going to work? do you wash hands before or after using a urinal? etc. (on TFA, are "pink collar" occupations particularly impacted by AI? I'd think nurses would actually be pro-AI, as their memes involve hospitals believing paperwork to be more important than patient work...) lagniappe: https://thunderdungeon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/nursing-memes-10-03-11-2023.jpg https://thunderdungeon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/nursin...