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The “Iranians that you work with” in the west are highly self-selecting. They’re like Cubans in Florida or Vietnamese—people who fled in the aftermath of the re

by rayiner 10mo ago

The “Iranians that you work with” in the west are highly self-selecting. They’re like Cubans in Florida or Vietnamese—people who fled in the aftermath of the revolution and are extremely antagonistic towards the regime. My family left Bangladesh the year after the dictator made Islam the official religion. My dad is apoplectic about the Islamist parties being unbanned recently after the government was overthrown. By contrast many of my extended family, who came much later for economic reasons, are happy about that. The people who disliked the Islamization of the country and had the financial means to do so left while the people who were fine with it stayed. My daughter’s hair stylist is Iranian (she was an accountant in old country). When Jimmy Carter’s wife died, she said “I’m happy she’s dead.” I’ve never seen anyone else say a negative thing about the Carters personally. Even die hard Republicans who think he was a weak President don’t hate him as a person. But this is not an uncommon sentiment among the Iranian diaspora.

FilosofumRex 10mo ago
[flagged]
- dyauspitr 10mo ago
  Do you mean doesn’t wear a headscarf?
  - tinco 10mo ago
    Depends on what you want to hear. The Iranian family in my neighborhood whose father was a doctor fled after Islamist police cut their daughter to pieces in their own home for dressing inappropriately. That's the sort of non headscarf wearing Iranian elite you'll find with an opinion critical of the current regime. I don't know about ostentatious clothing.
    - FilosofumRex 10mo ago
      [flagged]
      - tinco 10mo ago
        There was no need for the 15 year old boy who told me this traumatic story of how his sister was killed in his own house to make that story up, because just the fact that they're a liberal family coming from Iran would have been enough information for them to get a visa to stay in The Netherlands based on political persecution. This happened during Clinton, if you're counting history in US presidencies. And also it doesn't even matter if their sister really was killed. Islamic regimes like the one in Iran are despicable, and would have been even they didn't support goons killing girls for dumb religious regions.
        busterarm 10mo ago
        The fact that the person you're responding to even still has a functioning HN account after their post history leaves me shocked and honestly appalled at the moderation of the site. I've been told off repeatedly and threatened with all kinds of consequences by dang and I haven't come close to postings like this.
    - dyauspitr 9mo ago
      Here you have women putting away men for 20 years with fake rape allegations. Last week a man committed suicide in a very public case where a woman falsely accused him of molestation on camera. Potayto potato. I’m going to be downvoted for this because it’s crass but there is truth in what I am saying.
  - FilosofumRex 10mo ago
    yes, thank you for correction. it should say "women who don't wear headscarf...". I could not edit it myself because HN banned me for exposing their Mossad propaganda, yesterday
    - sejje 10mo ago
      Actually it's because you can't edit comments after a certain period. That's true for everyone. You're not shadowbanned.
geraneum 10mo ago
> people who fled in the aftermath of the revolution and are extremely antagonistic towards the regime Iranian who left Iran here. Do you have stats or reference for this critical piece of information? It’s as if someone’s says, since Bangladesh is predominantly muslim, the majority aligns with what the Islamic regime does for ideological reasons and would try to undermine the account of atrocities. But one shouldn’t believe this before seeing some polls, stats, etc.
- int_19h 10mo ago
  Anecdotally this does seem to be true in US. I know several Iranians in US, from completely different social circles, but all of them strongly anti-clerical and not shy about it. Also, as a Russian who left Russia, it's certainly a familiar pattern. Note, by the way, that this doesn't really imply anything about whether those people are wrong to be antagonistic.
  - MSFT_Edging 10mo ago
    > Also, as a Russian who left Russia I've noticed there's two distinct 20th century Russian diaspora groups in the US. Those who came here prior to the fall of the USSR, and those who came after. In talking with the ones who came after the fall, life wasn't glamorous but got truly unlivable in the wake of the collapse. In talking with the ones who came before the fall, they wanted to make money.
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    - busterarm 10mo ago
      There's a group here, largely those expats kids in my experience, that swears they had things better back in Russia and ravenously consume Russian media. I used to encounter them a lot in Sheepshead Bay.
      - MisterTea 10mo ago
Der_Einzige 10mo ago
How come they blame carter instead of REAGAN over this shit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_October_Surprise_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_October_Surprise_theory
- tgma 10mo ago
  President Nixon was an outspoken friend of the Shah. It was Carter administration that stabbed him in the back and negotiated with Khomeini in the first place. The hostage crisis happened about 9-10 months after Khomeini was in power and only towards the end of that crisis you could argue Reagan was in the picture at all. The love for Islamists by the Democrats in power never ended and Clinton, Obama, and Biden all were desperate in appeasing the Mullah regime. It's the ousting of the Shah and appeasing the Mullahs that garners the hate.
  - cess11 10mo ago
    Clinton using executive orders and legislation to keep Russia and Iran from cooperating on defense was a desperate act of "Mullah" appeasement? It was the iranians that called for the Negev summit?
    - tgma 10mo ago
      Yes, it is all relative. It is appeasement compared to war and much heavier sanctions that ended up being necessary. Clinton and even Bush II administrations were hoping internal change would come up during Khatami era and hoping for him to be Gorbachev. Regardless of Bush II harsh rhetoric, the real animosity only really started after Ahmadinejad was installed in Iran. You are correct that Clinton was still not as friendly as the other two, who very explicitly played into their hands. In any case I was simply responding to OP's "why" question and that their theory on blaming Reagan allegedly vs Carter on a narrow point, highlighting that particular case is temporally much later, and has no relevance to the underlying reason Carter is hated over there.
      - cess11 9mo ago
kvgr 10mo ago
"People who were fine with it stayed" surely you must be joking right?
y-c-o-m-b 10mo ago
> But this is not an uncommon sentiment among the Iranian diaspora Iranian-American here, I have never heard a single Iranian badmouth Carter or his family in my entire life. This is the first time I'm hearing of it. > extremely antagonistic towards the regime On the other hand, this point is very accurate, I can confirm. There's a reason we left, after all. To my earlier point: this is consistently the direction of our anger - towards the regime - not the Carter administration.
radlad 10mo ago
> The people who disliked the Islamization of the country and had the financial means to do so left while the people who were fine with it stayed. You say it yourself, the ones who "had the financial means to do so left" - so it's very disingenuous to then state "the people who were fine with it stayed." What about those who couldn't afford to leave?

by rayiner 10mo ago

FilosofumRex 10mo ago

[flagged]

dyauspitr 10mo ago
Do you mean doesn’t wear a headscarf?
- tinco 10mo ago
  Depends on what you want to hear. The Iranian family in my neighborhood whose father was a doctor fled after Islamist police cut their daughter to pieces in their own home for dressing inappropriately. That's the sort of non headscarf wearing Iranian elite you'll find with an opinion critical of the current regime. I don't know about ostentatious clothing.
  - FilosofumRex 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - tinco 10mo ago
      There was no need for the 15 year old boy who told me this traumatic story of how his sister was killed in his own house to make that story up, because just the fact that they're a liberal family coming from Iran would have been enough information for them to get a visa to stay in The Netherlands based on political persecution. This happened during Clinton, if you're counting history in US presidencies. And also it doesn't even matter if their sister really was killed. Islamic regimes like the one in Iran are despicable, and would have been even they didn't support goons killing girls for dumb religious regions.
      - busterarm 10mo ago
        The fact that the person you're responding to even still has a functioning HN account after their post history leaves me shocked and honestly appalled at the moderation of the site. I've been told off repeatedly and threatened with all kinds of consequences by dang and I haven't come close to postings like this.
  - dyauspitr 9mo ago
    Here you have women putting away men for 20 years with fake rape allegations. Last week a man committed suicide in a very public case where a woman falsely accused him of molestation on camera. Potayto potato. I’m going to be downvoted for this because it’s crass but there is truth in what I am saying.
- FilosofumRex 10mo ago
  yes, thank you for correction. it should say "women who don't wear headscarf...". I could not edit it myself because HN banned me for exposing their Mossad propaganda, yesterday
  - sejje 10mo ago
    Actually it's because you can't edit comments after a certain period. That's true for everyone. You're not shadowbanned.

geraneum 10mo ago

> people who fled in the aftermath of the revolution and are extremely antagonistic towards the regime Iranian who left Iran here. Do you have stats or reference for this critical piece of information? It’s as if someone’s says, since Bangladesh is predominantly muslim, the majority aligns with what the Islamic regime does for ideological reasons and would try to undermine the account of atrocities. But one shouldn’t believe this before seeing some polls, stats, etc.

int_19h 10mo ago
Anecdotally this does seem to be true in US. I know several Iranians in US, from completely different social circles, but all of them strongly anti-clerical and not shy about it. Also, as a Russian who left Russia, it's certainly a familiar pattern. Note, by the way, that this doesn't really imply anything about whether those people are wrong to be antagonistic.
- MSFT_Edging 10mo ago
  > Also, as a Russian who left Russia I've noticed there's two distinct 20th century Russian diaspora groups in the US. Those who came here prior to the fall of the USSR, and those who came after. In talking with the ones who came after the fall, life wasn't glamorous but got truly unlivable in the wake of the collapse. In talking with the ones who came before the fall, they wanted to make money.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - busterarm 10mo ago
    There's a group here, largely those expats kids in my experience, that swears they had things better back in Russia and ravenously consume Russian media. I used to encounter them a lot in Sheepshead Bay.
    - MisterTea 10mo ago

Der_Einzige 10mo ago

How come they blame carter instead of REAGAN over this shit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_October_Surprise_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_October_Surprise_theory

tgma 10mo ago
President Nixon was an outspoken friend of the Shah. It was Carter administration that stabbed him in the back and negotiated with Khomeini in the first place. The hostage crisis happened about 9-10 months after Khomeini was in power and only towards the end of that crisis you could argue Reagan was in the picture at all. The love for Islamists by the Democrats in power never ended and Clinton, Obama, and Biden all were desperate in appeasing the Mullah regime. It's the ousting of the Shah and appeasing the Mullahs that garners the hate.
- cess11 10mo ago
  Clinton using executive orders and legislation to keep Russia and Iran from cooperating on defense was a desperate act of "Mullah" appeasement? It was the iranians that called for the Negev summit?
  - tgma 10mo ago
    Yes, it is all relative. It is appeasement compared to war and much heavier sanctions that ended up being necessary. Clinton and even Bush II administrations were hoping internal change would come up during Khatami era and hoping for him to be Gorbachev. Regardless of Bush II harsh rhetoric, the real animosity only really started after Ahmadinejad was installed in Iran. You are correct that Clinton was still not as friendly as the other two, who very explicitly played into their hands. In any case I was simply responding to OP's "why" question and that their theory on blaming Reagan allegedly vs Carter on a narrow point, highlighting that particular case is temporally much later, and has no relevance to the underlying reason Carter is hated over there.
    - cess11 9mo ago

kvgr 10mo ago

"People who were fine with it stayed" surely you must be joking right?

y-c-o-m-b 10mo ago

> But this is not an uncommon sentiment among the Iranian diaspora Iranian-American here, I have never heard a single Iranian badmouth Carter or his family in my entire life. This is the first time I'm hearing of it. > extremely antagonistic towards the regime On the other hand, this point is very accurate, I can confirm. There's a reason we left, after all. To my earlier point: this is consistently the direction of our anger - towards the regime - not the Carter administration.

radlad 10mo ago

> The people who disliked the Islamization of the country and had the financial means to do so left while the people who were fine with it stayed. You say it yourself, the ones who "had the financial means to do so left" - so it's very disingenuous to then state "the people who were fine with it stayed." What about those who couldn't afford to leave?