4 ms·

I don’t think it is that widely available due to Snapdragon chips not supporting some feature it requires. Good option for Pixel owners or phones with MediaTek

I don’t think it is that widely available due to Snapdragon chips not supporting some feature it requires. Good option for Pixel owners or phones with MediaTek chips though.

fulafel 8mo ago
Apparently it's about software, not hardware - Qualcomm recommends running Android under a virtual machine (which lacks nested virtualization support).
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- superb_dev 8mo ago
  Is this for real? Do you have any more info on this? It seems crazy to me given how popular their chips are and how many problems I’d imagine this creates
  - asutor 8mo ago
    Using an S24 here and yeah, not available with Android 16
    - wolvoleo 8mo ago
      But the S24 wasn't Qualcomm but Exynos. Weird.
  - pierrec 8mo ago
    It shouldn't be problematic if the processor supports it well. For example modern Windows is always running as a VM and people are barely aware of that.
    - superb_dev 8mo ago
      That’s a good point, I forgot windows typically runs on top of hyperV
  - fulafel 8mo ago
    Some more info in this comment and good search terms for further research as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38091082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38091082
  - user_7832 8mo ago
    The other HN comment already has some info, but from what I remember from r/android threads, it's because qualcomm doesn't allow unsecure (sic? unencrypted?) VMs, which, ironically, are needed to run nested Linux. Disclaimer, my memory on the exact terminology is extremely fuzzy. But pixels with tensor can run it just fine. And it's purely a software thing too, btw.
  - jeroenhd 8mo ago
    It should work fine for any Android phone with pKVM support. It runs Debian in a VM, with some kind of Wayland trick (using virgl for GPU acceleration) to get GUI support. pKVM requires a) a compatible CPU (most CPUs will do, probably), b) compatible firmware/bootloader software, and c) a compatible Android build The latter two parts are the most likely reason why not all phones have support for this.
- mcbridematt 8mo ago
  IIRC Qualcomm smartphone SoCs have always run some kind of hypervisor, I believe it's to allow partitioning of the CPU cores with the modem/DSP. They used to (mid-late 2000s) use an L4 derivative ("REX"?), with the more recent chips (including the 'X' series for PCs) using their homegrown "Gunyah" hypervisor (https://github.com/quic/gunyah-hypervisor https://github.com/quic/gunyah-hypervisor)
  - fulafel 8mo ago
    Would be interesting if you know of any evidence about being an architectural hw limitation. Though of course the practical difference may be small if the DRM bootloader enforces loading the hypervisor through cryptographic checksums. But I guess if a customer asked they would allow it and the hardware could do it.
chasil 8mo ago
I run LineageOS on both a Pixel 3a XL and a OnePlus 5. Yes, these both run Snapdragons. The option to install the subsystem is present on both, but I have not attempted it. I have loaded it onto a Pixel 6a running Graphene.
- TheRoque 8mo ago
  The option is available, but it probably won't work (show some error that the chip should allow unsecure VMs)

I don’t think it is that widely available due to Snapdragon chips not supporting some feature it requires. Good option for Pixel owners or phones with MediaTek chips though.

fulafel 8mo ago

Apparently it's about software, not hardware - Qualcomm recommends running Android under a virtual machine (which lacks nested virtualization support).

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
superb_dev 8mo ago
Is this for real? Do you have any more info on this? It seems crazy to me given how popular their chips are and how many problems I’d imagine this creates
- asutor 8mo ago
  Using an S24 here and yeah, not available with Android 16
  - wolvoleo 8mo ago
    But the S24 wasn't Qualcomm but Exynos. Weird.
- pierrec 8mo ago
  It shouldn't be problematic if the processor supports it well. For example modern Windows is always running as a VM and people are barely aware of that.
  - superb_dev 8mo ago
    That’s a good point, I forgot windows typically runs on top of hyperV
- fulafel 8mo ago
  Some more info in this comment and good search terms for further research as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38091082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38091082
- user_7832 8mo ago
  The other HN comment already has some info, but from what I remember from r/android threads, it's because qualcomm doesn't allow unsecure (sic? unencrypted?) VMs, which, ironically, are needed to run nested Linux. Disclaimer, my memory on the exact terminology is extremely fuzzy. But pixels with tensor can run it just fine. And it's purely a software thing too, btw.
- jeroenhd 8mo ago
  It should work fine for any Android phone with pKVM support. It runs Debian in a VM, with some kind of Wayland trick (using virgl for GPU acceleration) to get GUI support. pKVM requires a) a compatible CPU (most CPUs will do, probably), b) compatible firmware/bootloader software, and c) a compatible Android build The latter two parts are the most likely reason why not all phones have support for this.
mcbridematt 8mo ago
IIRC Qualcomm smartphone SoCs have always run some kind of hypervisor, I believe it's to allow partitioning of the CPU cores with the modem/DSP. They used to (mid-late 2000s) use an L4 derivative ("REX"?), with the more recent chips (including the 'X' series for PCs) using their homegrown "Gunyah" hypervisor (https://github.com/quic/gunyah-hypervisor https://github.com/quic/gunyah-hypervisor)
- fulafel 8mo ago
  Would be interesting if you know of any evidence about being an architectural hw limitation. Though of course the practical difference may be small if the DRM bootloader enforces loading the hypervisor through cryptographic checksums. But I guess if a customer asked they would allow it and the hardware could do it.

chasil 8mo ago

I run LineageOS on both a Pixel 3a XL and a OnePlus 5. Yes, these both run Snapdragons. The option to install the subsystem is present on both, but I have not attempted it. I have loaded it onto a Pixel 6a running Graphene.

TheRoque 8mo ago
The option is available, but it probably won't work (show some error that the chip should allow unsecure VMs)