3 ms·
This is what Trump's dismantling of US power has brought us to. Our soon-to-be-former allies can't count on US nuclear deterrence to protect them, because not o
by spankalee 9mo ago
This is what Trump's dismantling of US power has brought us to. Our soon-to-be-former allies can't count on US nuclear deterrence to protect them, because not only is the US unreliable, but they might be the ones attacking.
We're in crazy-town because of Trump and the Republicans, with very real consequences.
- bethekidyouwant 9mo agoFrance has nukes.
- ceejayoz 9mo agoAs does the UK. But the collapse of the EU/US relationship means you probably want to plan for the potential of a similar collapse within the European alliances.
- graemep 9mo agoI think the opposite. It straightens incentives to cooperate. IIRC the UK has committed its nuclear weapons to defend NATO countries.
- ceejayoz 9mo ago> IIRC the UK has committed its nuclear weapons to defend NATO countries. So has the US, which is part of why this is so odd of an approach. Technically we’re required to nuke ourselves if we attack Greenland.
- direwolf20 9mo agoJust like the US committed to defend Ukraine?
- rcxdude 9mo agoThe UK buys its nukes from the US, so it's not really independent. (As I recall, the UK doesn't even have free choice on where those nukes are targeted).
- zabzonk 9mo agoIt buys the launch missiles from the US, the submarines and the warheads are home-grown.
- jedberg 9mo agoNot enough to be a deterrent. Until now NATO implicitly relied on the USA as their deterrent. That seems to no longer be a smart thing to do.
- carlosjobim 9mo agoOne is enough. Two were enough the last time they were used in war, and those were much smaller than current weapons.
- ceejayoz 9mo agoFrance kicked the US military out of France in 1966 and left NATO's military command structure. They largely rejoined in 2009 (and very deliberately never rejoined NATO's Nuclear Planning Group), but if any NATO member is capable of going it alone on this one, it's probably France. 240 nukes on subs is plenty to wave around as a stick, too.
- selectodude 9mo agoFrance and maybe Poland are the only sovereign countries in Europe.
- ben_w 9mo ago> Not enough to be a deterrent Even if American defences stopped 80% of them, estimates say France has enough (290*(1-0.8)=58) to destroy every state capital. Is more really necessary, if the goal is simply to deter?
- b00ty4breakfast 9mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- direwolf20 9mo agoYou are getting yourself flagged on purpose with the last line
- yellowapple 9mo agoThey should never have relied on US nuclear deterrence to begin with, even if we were perfectly-model allies. Single points of failure are worth remediating, preferably before crises.