4 ms·

I think the cultural barrier preventing me from understanding this way of thinking is impenetrable to me. What a strange world, huh?

direwolf20 9mo ago
Are you American? Freedom means the ability to do what you want. It doesn't mean owning guns.
- ZpJuUuNaQ5 9mo ago
  >Are you American? Freedom means the ability to do what you want. It doesn't mean owning guns. No, I am not, and I haven't mentioned guns or even hinted at the topic. Do whatever you want, but trying to purposefully destroy and smear the environment around you and claim it's an expression of freedom is ridiculous. It's just malicious, disgusting behavior that helps no one, serves no cause and has nothing to do with freedom.
  - recursive 9mo ago
    I don't think most graffiti writers are trying to destroy their environment.
- nmeofthestate 9mo ago
  I'm not American, but I doubt being pro-graffiti is a universal American value. I suspect many Americans aren't that into it, given it makes the place look bad. Many Americans might think instead that you should only deface things you own.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    I think it makes the place look like a place where people are free and not oppressed, which is nice.
    - lostdog 9mo ago
      They are oppressed by their neighbors, who can scribble all over their home without consequences. Have you had to clean off graffiti?
      - direwolf20 9mo ago
        Why would I have to clean it off?
        baud147258 9mo ago
        because you find it ugly? Because the city/HOA is asking? Because it's a political message you don't agree with (or don't want your house to get burned for it)?
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        So I have problems with the government but I blame graffitiers?
        baud147258 9mo ago
        Because if graffitiers didn't degrade your property, you wouldn't have to clean after them?
        komali2 9mo ago
        As a renter, graffiti is great for me, it keeps property values down which keeps rent lower. And given that I don't aesthetically give a shit about it, it's win/neutral for me.
- socalgal2 9mo ago
  I'm surprised you don't understand it. Put your money where your mouth is. Let me come over and tag all your property.
  - komali2 9mo ago
    You would be doing so alongside tens of other artists, and then after a month or so I would whitewash the wall, and everyone would start up all over again. Such is street art. Kinda beautiful, how much effort people put into art they know will be gone or changed possibly within a couple days.
komali2 9mo ago
I think that's very exciting for you, because imo it's very rarely we encounter truly challenging problems like this. I understand that you prefer to make up your mind about street artists, but I can assure you as someone that used to hold the same opinion, that opinion is held from a place of unfamiliarity with the culture and the people in it. It was very enlightening for me to step out of my SF tech circle into the street art scene and talk to very, very different people. You may be different but I personally find it very important to challenge my thinking by talking to very different kinds of people.
- ZpJuUuNaQ5 9mo ago
  >I think that's very exciting for you Random online interactions rarely change anyone's opinions, and you don't have to accept my worldview, and neither I need to accept yours. I am just somewhat saddened that there are people who would defend defacing the city like that, but at the same time, I understand that we are byproducts of our environment. I think I should consider myself lucky that I happen to live in a place which I appreciate. It's not that I am incapable of admiring art or loathe graffiti as a style, but, at least based on my experience, most of it are just cases of vandalism. My city actually have places dedicated to graffiti artists, so that they can create whatever they want freely, but I guess that removes at least some of the fun.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    Our environment controls us, and we are also allowed to control our environment. Graffiti is like protesting. The government likes to contain it and deny it and suppress it. Your city probably has a free speech zone where protesting is allowed, which is far out of the way so those protests won't have an audience, but that is not where protests occur when they occur.
    - ZpJuUuNaQ5 9mo ago
      >Your city probably has a free speech zone where protesting is allowed, which is far out of the way so those protests won't have an audience, but that is not where protests occur when they occur. What a weird thing to say. I don't know whether you live in some totalitarian regime or assume that you do, but I don't. However, I can see it as means of protesting, an we can find examples of it in history and current day, but most graffiti out there is not that at all.

direwolf20 9mo ago

Are you American? Freedom means the ability to do what you want. It doesn't mean owning guns.

ZpJuUuNaQ5 9mo ago
>Are you American? Freedom means the ability to do what you want. It doesn't mean owning guns. No, I am not, and I haven't mentioned guns or even hinted at the topic. Do whatever you want, but trying to purposefully destroy and smear the environment around you and claim it's an expression of freedom is ridiculous. It's just malicious, disgusting behavior that helps no one, serves no cause and has nothing to do with freedom.
- recursive 9mo ago
  I don't think most graffiti writers are trying to destroy their environment.
nmeofthestate 9mo ago
I'm not American, but I doubt being pro-graffiti is a universal American value. I suspect many Americans aren't that into it, given it makes the place look bad. Many Americans might think instead that you should only deface things you own.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  I think it makes the place look like a place where people are free and not oppressed, which is nice.
  - lostdog 9mo ago
    They are oppressed by their neighbors, who can scribble all over their home without consequences. Have you had to clean off graffiti?
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      Why would I have to clean it off?
      - baud147258 9mo ago
        because you find it ugly? Because the city/HOA is asking? Because it's a political message you don't agree with (or don't want your house to get burned for it)?
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        So I have problems with the government but I blame graffitiers?
        baud147258 9mo ago
        Because if graffitiers didn't degrade your property, you wouldn't have to clean after them?
        komali2 9mo ago
        As a renter, graffiti is great for me, it keeps property values down which keeps rent lower. And given that I don't aesthetically give a shit about it, it's win/neutral for me.
socalgal2 9mo ago
I'm surprised you don't understand it. Put your money where your mouth is. Let me come over and tag all your property.
- komali2 9mo ago
  You would be doing so alongside tens of other artists, and then after a month or so I would whitewash the wall, and everyone would start up all over again. Such is street art. Kinda beautiful, how much effort people put into art they know will be gone or changed possibly within a couple days.

komali2 9mo ago

I think that's very exciting for you, because imo it's very rarely we encounter truly challenging problems like this. I understand that you prefer to make up your mind about street artists, but I can assure you as someone that used to hold the same opinion, that opinion is held from a place of unfamiliarity with the culture and the people in it. It was very enlightening for me to step out of my SF tech circle into the street art scene and talk to very, very different people. You may be different but I personally find it very important to challenge my thinking by talking to very different kinds of people.

ZpJuUuNaQ5 9mo ago
>I think that's very exciting for you Random online interactions rarely change anyone's opinions, and you don't have to accept my worldview, and neither I need to accept yours. I am just somewhat saddened that there are people who would defend defacing the city like that, but at the same time, I understand that we are byproducts of our environment. I think I should consider myself lucky that I happen to live in a place which I appreciate. It's not that I am incapable of admiring art or loathe graffiti as a style, but, at least based on my experience, most of it are just cases of vandalism. My city actually have places dedicated to graffiti artists, so that they can create whatever they want freely, but I guess that removes at least some of the fun.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Our environment controls us, and we are also allowed to control our environment. Graffiti is like protesting. The government likes to contain it and deny it and suppress it. Your city probably has a free speech zone where protesting is allowed, which is far out of the way so those protests won't have an audience, but that is not where protests occur when they occur.
  - ZpJuUuNaQ5 9mo ago
    >Your city probably has a free speech zone where protesting is allowed, which is far out of the way so those protests won't have an audience, but that is not where protests occur when they occur. What a weird thing to say. I don't know whether you live in some totalitarian regime or assume that you do, but I don't. However, I can see it as means of protesting, an we can find examples of it in history and current day, but most graffiti out there is not that at all.