7 ms·

It is a source run by expatriate Iranians of the diaspora.. the fact that so many people just discount their point of view it's pretty frustrating. If you speak

by redwood 9mo ago

It is a source run by expatriate Iranians of the diaspora.. the fact that so many people just discount their point of view it's pretty frustrating. If you speak to Iranians that you work with it's pretty illuminating

bigyabai 9mo ago
> It is a source run by expatriate Iranians of the diaspora Including the Mossad, which is kinda an important footnote you might not want to omit: https://xcancel.com/BarakRavid/status/1560685368780939265/ https://xcancel.com/BarakRavid/status/1560685368780939265/
- ch4s3 9mo ago
  According to a twitter comment by a reporter who didn’t back the claim with any evidence.
  - bigyabai 9mo ago
    With respects to Mordechai Vanunu, I can understand why he didn't try leaking documents.
    - ch4s3 9mo ago
      If Ravid isn't even willing to say that someone told him on background, it sounds like bullshit or speculation. Guys like Ravid are intentionally or no part of the myth making around Mossad where they are simultaneously everywhere int he Middle East and nowhere at once.
      - chipsrafferty 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        trimethylpurine 9mo ago
        What's special about how they are doing it that makes the theory centered around Mossad? If it's happening, that seems like it would be business as usual for all intelligence agencies operating in all countries.
        int0x2e 9mo ago
        There are not even 7,000 Mossad agents, period. 7,000 is the highest estimate publicly available for the TOTAL number of employees in the Mossad, and 95% of them are not agents - just like most US intel are not field agents. Real numbers for agents are far, far lower without a doubt. Also - Israel got burned so bad with the idiotic Pollard affair, there is zero chance Israel would put so much of their assets in the US when they have a 7 front war. They are many things, but they are not idiots, and they clearly care far more about their immediate security interests than what the US thinks. These theories make absolutely no sense, my dear fried.
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        "Mossad agents" would by definition not be "Mossad employees"
        mikkupikku 9mo ago
        You've got that backward. Intelligence Agents are employed by intelligence agencies. Intelligence Assets aren't.
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        I think you're confusing "agent" and "officer". An agent is specifically some third party acting on your behalf. It's the same when we speak of real estate agents.
        mikkupikku 9mo ago
        Wiktionary says, regarding 'agent': > Someone who works for an intelligence agency: whether an officer or employee thereof or anyone else who agrees to help their efforts (for ideology, for money, as blackmailee, or otherwise). That said, I also asked ChatGPT and it says you're right.
awakeasleep 9mo ago
It’s similar to how so many people dismiss Cuban American views on Cuba just because the cuban americans were mostly the ownership class that had to flee the revolution.
- spwa4 9mo ago
  On the other hand, there is the opposing side that's also tough to ignore where they're coming from. Leftists, with Western pro-Khomeini protests, not just in Iran, with the usual involvement from the KGB, and the CIA opposing, brought Khomeini to power with claims that he would bring a communist revolution. As per tradition in a communist revolution, first thing he did once in power is execute communist allies. Of course, Iran is still allied with the KGB (now FSB) and Moscow, currently delivering weapons and weapon designs for use in the war against Ukraine. You could also point out that Iran is kind-of socialist, in the sense that the state controls, at minimum, 70% of the economy, and all those "companies" are directly controlled by the government. So socialists are still at it, supporting the ayatollah, for example: https://marxist.com/iran-for-a-nationwide-uprising-down-with-the-islamic-republic.htm https://marxist.com/iran-for-a-nationwide-uprising-down-with... Note: yes, I get what the title says, but read. IN the article you'll find an insane rant about how Israel and the US are really behind the revolution and how despite that the regime really held back, and this popular revolution, if it fails will bring back national Iranian pride, and the revolution failing will be the final push that ayatollah's need to actually bring the communist revolution to Iran
  - anigbrowl 9mo ago
    I read the whole thing and you are smoking crack. They are calling for the overthrow of the Islamic regime and (explicitly) for the death of the supreme leader. As far as their theoretical argument goes, it's that the masses in IRan are ready to have a revolution but that they lack the organizational skills and roadmaps that communists beleieve themselves to have. They also argue that external support of a revolution is strategically bad because the incumbent regime will use it to portray the Iranian students/working class as tools of foriegn powers.
- busterarm 9mo ago
rayiner 9mo ago
The “Iranians that you work with” in the west are highly self-selecting. They’re like Cubans in Florida or Vietnamese—people who fled in the aftermath of the revolution and are extremely antagonistic towards the regime. My family left Bangladesh the year after the dictator made Islam the official religion. My dad is apoplectic about the Islamist parties being unbanned recently after the government was overthrown. By contrast many of my extended family, who came much later for economic reasons, are happy about that. The people who disliked the Islamization of the country and had the financial means to do so left while the people who were fine with it stayed. My daughter’s hair stylist is Iranian (she was an accountant in old country). When Jimmy Carter’s wife died, she said “I’m happy she’s dead.” I’ve never seen anyone else say a negative thing about the Carters personally. Even die hard Republicans who think he was a weak President don’t hate him as a person. But this is not an uncommon sentiment among the Iranian diaspora.
- FilosofumRex 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - dyauspitr 9mo ago
    Do you mean doesn’t wear a headscarf?
    - tinco 9mo ago
      Depends on what you want to hear. The Iranian family in my neighborhood whose father was a doctor fled after Islamist police cut their daughter to pieces in their own home for dressing inappropriately. That's the sort of non headscarf wearing Iranian elite you'll find with an opinion critical of the current regime. I don't know about ostentatious clothing.
      - FilosofumRex 9mo ago
        [flagged]
etc-hosts 9mo ago
It's clear that at least a couple of thousands Iranians have died in protests. Khamenei even said so in a speech a few days ago. but its not 36,000.
dyauspitr 9mo ago
The number is probably in the middle. Diaspora Iranians are the most anti khomeini people out there
- lucasRW 9mo ago
  And those filling the streets of most Iranians cities 3 weeks ago, i'd say...
shevy-java 9mo ago
"It is a source run by expatriate Iranians of the diaspora.. the fact that so many people just discount their point of view it's pretty frustrating. If you speak to Iranians that you work with it's pretty illuminating" Well - the data they publish can be correct; or it can be a made-up lie. We simply don't know. So why should we assume the data they publish should be correct? How did they reach that number? And why is that number more precise than earlier reported numbers? And, why is that number so different to the other numbers told before? What if they say tomorrow it is 50.000 suddenly?
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
stevenwoo 9mo ago
In the USA, congressional testimony about babies in Kuwaiti hospitals being killed by Iraqi soldiers was revealed to be fake to justify US military involvement in Iraq invasion of Kuwait https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony There were multiple falsified reports about WMD and nuclear weapons development to justify US intervention in Iraq https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-17-na-niger17-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-17-na-niger... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) Given the veracity of the current administration, the repeated history of the US government lying to justify military interventions (Vietnam Tonkin Gulf incident looks fake going back a little further), I think people who know a little bit of history and are paying attention have legitimate reason to want more than just one source. Whatever the number is in Iran it's terrible but there's no military intervention outside countries can do that's going to change that given Iran is already sanctioned to the gills and it's a huge country that presents many challenges - the people there are going to have to do it themselves.

by redwood 9mo ago

bigyabai 9mo ago

> It is a source run by expatriate Iranians of the diaspora Including the Mossad, which is kinda an important footnote you might not want to omit: https://xcancel.com/BarakRavid/status/1560685368780939265/ https://xcancel.com/BarakRavid/status/1560685368780939265/

ch4s3 9mo ago
According to a twitter comment by a reporter who didn’t back the claim with any evidence.
- bigyabai 9mo ago
  With respects to Mordechai Vanunu, I can understand why he didn't try leaking documents.
  - ch4s3 9mo ago
    If Ravid isn't even willing to say that someone told him on background, it sounds like bullshit or speculation. Guys like Ravid are intentionally or no part of the myth making around Mossad where they are simultaneously everywhere int he Middle East and nowhere at once.
    - chipsrafferty 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - trimethylpurine 9mo ago
        What's special about how they are doing it that makes the theory centered around Mossad? If it's happening, that seems like it would be business as usual for all intelligence agencies operating in all countries.
      - int0x2e 9mo ago
        There are not even 7,000 Mossad agents, period. 7,000 is the highest estimate publicly available for the TOTAL number of employees in the Mossad, and 95% of them are not agents - just like most US intel are not field agents. Real numbers for agents are far, far lower without a doubt. Also - Israel got burned so bad with the idiotic Pollard affair, there is zero chance Israel would put so much of their assets in the US when they have a 7 front war. They are many things, but they are not idiots, and they clearly care far more about their immediate security interests than what the US thinks. These theories make absolutely no sense, my dear fried.
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        "Mossad agents" would by definition not be "Mossad employees"
        mikkupikku 9mo ago
        You've got that backward. Intelligence Agents are employed by intelligence agencies. Intelligence Assets aren't.
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        I think you're confusing "agent" and "officer". An agent is specifically some third party acting on your behalf. It's the same when we speak of real estate agents.
        mikkupikku 9mo ago
        Wiktionary says, regarding 'agent': > Someone who works for an intelligence agency: whether an officer or employee thereof or anyone else who agrees to help their efforts (for ideology, for money, as blackmailee, or otherwise). That said, I also asked ChatGPT and it says you're right.

awakeasleep 9mo ago

It’s similar to how so many people dismiss Cuban American views on Cuba just because the cuban americans were mostly the ownership class that had to flee the revolution.

spwa4 9mo ago
On the other hand, there is the opposing side that's also tough to ignore where they're coming from. Leftists, with Western pro-Khomeini protests, not just in Iran, with the usual involvement from the KGB, and the CIA opposing, brought Khomeini to power with claims that he would bring a communist revolution. As per tradition in a communist revolution, first thing he did once in power is execute communist allies. Of course, Iran is still allied with the KGB (now FSB) and Moscow, currently delivering weapons and weapon designs for use in the war against Ukraine. You could also point out that Iran is kind-of socialist, in the sense that the state controls, at minimum, 70% of the economy, and all those "companies" are directly controlled by the government. So socialists are still at it, supporting the ayatollah, for example: https://marxist.com/iran-for-a-nationwide-uprising-down-with-the-islamic-republic.htm https://marxist.com/iran-for-a-nationwide-uprising-down-with... Note: yes, I get what the title says, but read. IN the article you'll find an insane rant about how Israel and the US are really behind the revolution and how despite that the regime really held back, and this popular revolution, if it fails will bring back national Iranian pride, and the revolution failing will be the final push that ayatollah's need to actually bring the communist revolution to Iran
- anigbrowl 9mo ago
  I read the whole thing and you are smoking crack. They are calling for the overthrow of the Islamic regime and (explicitly) for the death of the supreme leader. As far as their theoretical argument goes, it's that the masses in IRan are ready to have a revolution but that they lack the organizational skills and roadmaps that communists beleieve themselves to have. They also argue that external support of a revolution is strategically bad because the incumbent regime will use it to portray the Iranian students/working class as tools of foriegn powers.
busterarm 9mo ago

rayiner 9mo ago

The “Iranians that you work with” in the west are highly self-selecting. They’re like Cubans in Florida or Vietnamese—people who fled in the aftermath of the revolution and are extremely antagonistic towards the regime. My family left Bangladesh the year after the dictator made Islam the official religion. My dad is apoplectic about the Islamist parties being unbanned recently after the government was overthrown. By contrast many of my extended family, who came much later for economic reasons, are happy about that. The people who disliked the Islamization of the country and had the financial means to do so left while the people who were fine with it stayed. My daughter’s hair stylist is Iranian (she was an accountant in old country). When Jimmy Carter’s wife died, she said “I’m happy she’s dead.” I’ve never seen anyone else say a negative thing about the Carters personally. Even die hard Republicans who think he was a weak President don’t hate him as a person. But this is not an uncommon sentiment among the Iranian diaspora.

FilosofumRex 9mo ago
[flagged]
- dyauspitr 9mo ago
  Do you mean doesn’t wear a headscarf?
  - tinco 9mo ago
    Depends on what you want to hear. The Iranian family in my neighborhood whose father was a doctor fled after Islamist police cut their daughter to pieces in their own home for dressing inappropriately. That's the sort of non headscarf wearing Iranian elite you'll find with an opinion critical of the current regime. I don't know about ostentatious clothing.
    - FilosofumRex 9mo ago
      [flagged]

etc-hosts 9mo ago

It's clear that at least a couple of thousands Iranians have died in protests. Khamenei even said so in a speech a few days ago. but its not 36,000.

dyauspitr 9mo ago

The number is probably in the middle. Diaspora Iranians are the most anti khomeini people out there

lucasRW 9mo ago
And those filling the streets of most Iranians cities 3 weeks ago, i'd say...

shevy-java 9mo ago

"It is a source run by expatriate Iranians of the diaspora.. the fact that so many people just discount their point of view it's pretty frustrating. If you speak to Iranians that you work with it's pretty illuminating" Well - the data they publish can be correct; or it can be a made-up lie. We simply don't know. So why should we assume the data they publish should be correct? How did they reach that number? And why is that number more precise than earlier reported numbers? And, why is that number so different to the other numbers told before? What if they say tomorrow it is 50.000 suddenly?

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

stevenwoo 9mo ago

In the USA, congressional testimony about babies in Kuwaiti hospitals being killed by Iraqi soldiers was revealed to be fake to justify US military involvement in Iraq invasion of Kuwait https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony There were multiple falsified reports about WMD and nuclear weapons development to justify US intervention in Iraq https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-17-na-niger17-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-feb-17-na-niger... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) Given the veracity of the current administration, the repeated history of the US government lying to justify military interventions (Vietnam Tonkin Gulf incident looks fake going back a little further), I think people who know a little bit of history and are paying attention have legitimate reason to want more than just one source. Whatever the number is in Iran it's terrible but there's no military intervention outside countries can do that's going to change that given Iran is already sanctioned to the gills and it's a huge country that presents many challenges - the people there are going to have to do it themselves.