3 ms·

"the firearm may discharge when it is dropped and the back of the slide hits the ground at a 33-degree angle" That is pretty hard to accomplish while its in a

"the firearm may discharge when it is dropped and the back of the slide hits the ground at a 33-degree angle" That is pretty hard to accomplish while its in a holster unless the guy was suplexed and his entire spine turned to jello giving the gun a multi-foot uncushioned drop. "misfire was due to "a partial depression of the trigger by a foreign object combined with simultaneous movement of the slide" Which is irrelevant when in a shielded holster like this guy has. On top of all this, even had the gun went off, which I have found zero evidence to support, how would that guy know who's gun went off to start with? Guns don't light up with a bunch of LEDs to show you it has been fired. If you aren't staring directly at the gun, which isn't really possible in the scenario that played out, you wouldn't know whos gun went off. And even if someone was staring at the gun and saw it go off, how does a holstered gun that nobody is holding represent any sort of threat? You think the guy is controlling his gun with his mind powers? I don't even know why im bother argueing with you because this entire thing is ludicrous. I find it hard to believe you have watched any of the video of the incident at all and came to this conclusion.

rlt 8mo ago
If it misfired it likely misfired as it was being taken, not while in his holster. If you’re detaining someone who has a gun and a gun goes off it’s incompetent, maybe negligent, but not murder to react by shooting the guy who had the gun. I don’t think anyone can draw definitive conclusions from the videos.
- andygeorge 8mo ago
  > it’s incompetent but not murder That is a conclusion
  - rlt 8mo ago
    Hanlon’s Razor
- cthalupa 8mo ago
  The person who starts shooting him has full visibility of the gun the entire time. Even if he doesn't realize it is a misfire, why would he believe that it was Pretti who shot? How can you reasonably believe a dude that is dogpiled with a gun not in his control is the shooter?
  - nailer 8mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46770328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46770328
    - cthalupa 8mo ago
      None of this combats anything in my statement. Again, the officer that begins the shooting can literally see Pretti is disarmed. He has no gun. He watches the other agent take his gun off of him. A more reasonable take in that situation would be thinking that some other protestor has decided to start shooting at them, not that the guy dogpiled by a half dozen agents and visibly fuckin' disarmed is the one doing it. I am not a gun control person. I think we'll never realistically get guns away from criminals, and as long as that's the case, law-abiding citizens should be allowed to have firearms to be on even footing. Full stop. But if we can't hold out law enforcement agencies, however nominal in nature they are, to high enough standards that they don't create the entire situation that causes them to kill someone who was never a threat to them, then they shouldn't be armed. Because we can't trust them not to slaughter US citizens.
      - nailer 8mo ago
        > Again, the officer that begins the shooting can literally see Pretti is disarmed. He has no gun. He watches the other agent take his gun off of him. How do you know what the officer saw? They’re tackling an armed man who attacked them. It’s very possible they might not be noticing every detail of what their colleagues are doing.
        cthalupa 8mo ago
- AngryData 8mo ago
  How is that not murder? In your scenario the guy is still innocent and he was shot to death because of ICE being scared by their own incompetence. If someone claps their hands and I reflexively mag dump you on the street, am I not guilty of murder?
  - nailer 8mo ago
    > If someone claps their hands and I reflexively mag dump you on the street, am I not guilty of murder? Comparing hearing a clap to a GUNSHOT is wild. Ninety nine percent of people including you and everyone on HN would, if involved in a scuffle with an aggressive armed man would respond to a sudden gun shot by shooting the armed guy.
    - computerthings 8mo ago
      [dead]
    - stephen_g 8mo ago
      We’re talking about the restrained guy who had been trying to help a woman and not once during the whole encounter had a gun in or near his hands? No, I would not murder that man, and I hope others wouldn’t either.
      - nailer 8mo ago
        The guy that was trying to physically interfere with an arrest, and that was now resisting arrest, that you were fighting with, and had a gun near his left/our right hand? Yes you would respond to sudden gunshots with gunfire.
        AngryData 8mo ago
        You are surrounded by people with guns, it could be any one of them that took a shot at anything else. It is a pretty massive leap to assume the guy being manhandled on the ground is the one shooting. That close to a gunshot you would have no idea where it came from sound unless you directly saw the gun firing, and if they did they would know it wasn't the guy without a gun in his hand.
nailer 8mo ago
You can make it fire by grabbing it around the barrel - give me a second I can find a YouTube video if you want. Here you go: https://youtu.be/jOMQOtOQoPk?si=73omsRIZIKDo3P8u https://youtu.be/jOMQOtOQoPk?si=73omsRIZIKDo3P8u

rlt 8mo ago

If it misfired it likely misfired as it was being taken, not while in his holster. If you’re detaining someone who has a gun and a gun goes off it’s incompetent, maybe negligent, but not murder to react by shooting the guy who had the gun. I don’t think anyone can draw definitive conclusions from the videos.

andygeorge 8mo ago
> it’s incompetent but not murder That is a conclusion
- rlt 8mo ago
  Hanlon’s Razor
cthalupa 8mo ago
The person who starts shooting him has full visibility of the gun the entire time. Even if he doesn't realize it is a misfire, why would he believe that it was Pretti who shot? How can you reasonably believe a dude that is dogpiled with a gun not in his control is the shooter?
- nailer 8mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46770328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46770328
  - cthalupa 8mo ago
    None of this combats anything in my statement. Again, the officer that begins the shooting can literally see Pretti is disarmed. He has no gun. He watches the other agent take his gun off of him. A more reasonable take in that situation would be thinking that some other protestor has decided to start shooting at them, not that the guy dogpiled by a half dozen agents and visibly fuckin' disarmed is the one doing it. I am not a gun control person. I think we'll never realistically get guns away from criminals, and as long as that's the case, law-abiding citizens should be allowed to have firearms to be on even footing. Full stop. But if we can't hold out law enforcement agencies, however nominal in nature they are, to high enough standards that they don't create the entire situation that causes them to kill someone who was never a threat to them, then they shouldn't be armed. Because we can't trust them not to slaughter US citizens.
    - nailer 8mo ago
      > Again, the officer that begins the shooting can literally see Pretti is disarmed. He has no gun. He watches the other agent take his gun off of him. How do you know what the officer saw? They’re tackling an armed man who attacked them. It’s very possible they might not be noticing every detail of what their colleagues are doing.
      - cthalupa 8mo ago
AngryData 8mo ago
How is that not murder? In your scenario the guy is still innocent and he was shot to death because of ICE being scared by their own incompetence. If someone claps their hands and I reflexively mag dump you on the street, am I not guilty of murder?
- nailer 8mo ago
  > If someone claps their hands and I reflexively mag dump you on the street, am I not guilty of murder? Comparing hearing a clap to a GUNSHOT is wild. Ninety nine percent of people including you and everyone on HN would, if involved in a scuffle with an aggressive armed man would respond to a sudden gun shot by shooting the armed guy.
  - computerthings 8mo ago
    [dead]
  - stephen_g 8mo ago
    We’re talking about the restrained guy who had been trying to help a woman and not once during the whole encounter had a gun in or near his hands? No, I would not murder that man, and I hope others wouldn’t either.
    - nailer 8mo ago
      The guy that was trying to physically interfere with an arrest, and that was now resisting arrest, that you were fighting with, and had a gun near his left/our right hand? Yes you would respond to sudden gunshots with gunfire.
      - AngryData 8mo ago
        You are surrounded by people with guns, it could be any one of them that took a shot at anything else. It is a pretty massive leap to assume the guy being manhandled on the ground is the one shooting. That close to a gunshot you would have no idea where it came from sound unless you directly saw the gun firing, and if they did they would know it wasn't the guy without a gun in his hand.

nailer 8mo ago

You can make it fire by grabbing it around the barrel - give me a second I can find a YouTube video if you want. Here you go: https://youtu.be/jOMQOtOQoPk?si=73omsRIZIKDo3P8u https://youtu.be/jOMQOtOQoPk?si=73omsRIZIKDo3P8u