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> If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance […] Also perhaps worth noting

> If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance […] Also perhaps worth noting that David Frum, former speech writer to Dubya Bush, writes for The Atlantic (and has been against Trump from the start: see his book Trumpocracy): * https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/ https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/ So we're not just talking about 'leftists' criticizing these actions and policies.

ikidd 9mo ago
And was a pretty rabid conservative until the Trump era. He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Maybe he's grown a spine.
- throw0101c 9mo ago
  > He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Yes, he hoped to fight from the inside, but recognized that the GOP had been taken over my inmates. In 2016 he voted for Clinton and urged others to do so: > Surely the American system of government is more robust than the Turkish or Hungarian or Polish or Malaysian or Italian systems. But that is not automatically true. It is true because of the active vigilance of freedom-loving citizens who put country first, party second. Not in many decades has that vigilance been required as it is required now. > Your hand may hesitate to put a mark beside the name, Hillary Clinton. You’re not doing it for her. The vote you cast is for the republic and the Constitution. * https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/dont-gamble-on-trump/506207/ https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...
JeremyNT 9mo ago
The left / right split isn't really meaningful in the United States right now. The split is currently between people who believe in and want a functional and equitable government, and those who are fine with a kleptocracy as long as they are personally the beneficiaries (or at least, the people they dislike suffer worse). People like Frum were quick to notice this and get on the correct side of it. Unfortunately, there are not enough Republicans who feel the same way to make much of a difference.
- atomic_reed 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - deinonychus 9mo ago
    Are you okay? Is this an AI experiment?
    - atomic_reed 9mo ago
      This is an anti-AI experiment amigo. My tokens bring all the boys to the yard...because they are less predictable. And no, I am not ok. My facts are rooted in what I daydream of.
- tstrimple 9mo ago
  It must just be a coincidence that literally everyone supporting this is on the right politically. Isn't this sort of weasel wording part of the problem? Conservative voters are the problem. Full stop. Without them, there is no Trump.
  - mindslight 9mo ago
    nit: Fascist voters who think of themselves as "conservative" are the problem. Actual conservatives wouldn't support Trump attacking institution after institution, both domestic and international. My point isn't to defend the behavior of the people who have called themselves conservative for the past ~forty years. Rather it's meant to reclaim the term for what has now clearly become the middle of the Overton window. For example, never before having voted for a major party candidate in a national race in my whole life, I voted Biden in 2020 and Harris 2024. I consider these solidly conservative votes, and partially attribute them to my getting older and more conservative.
    - tstrimple 9mo ago
      > Actual conservatives wouldn't support Trump It's quite honestly amazing how much conservative propaganda has warped the liberal mind. So many liberals actually believe that conservatives just want a slow measured pace of change and to balance budgets, but that's literally never been what they have actually legislated for or accomplished. Liberals are the only people in my lifetime who have actually held those values. They are also the only ones who believe conservatives hold those values. Conservative's know better. And they demonstrated it with their vote. You can no-true-Scotsman until you're blue. There has literally never been a time in this nations history when that was an accurate depiction of conservatives. Consistently throughout this country's history, conservatives rally to oppose rights being shared with a broader group of people. Conservatives fought a civil war to maintain slavery. They fought for Jim Crow laws. They fought against anti-miscegenation laws. They fought against women's right to vote. They fought and are still fighting against gay rights and recognizing trans people as humans. Literally every single time there is a minority "at risk" of having a better lot in life, there are conservatives turning out to fight against it. When the fuck will you give up the benefit of the doubt on conservatives?

ikidd 9mo ago

And was a pretty rabid conservative until the Trump era. He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Maybe he's grown a spine.

throw0101c 9mo ago
> He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Yes, he hoped to fight from the inside, but recognized that the GOP had been taken over my inmates. In 2016 he voted for Clinton and urged others to do so: > Surely the American system of government is more robust than the Turkish or Hungarian or Polish or Malaysian or Italian systems. But that is not automatically true. It is true because of the active vigilance of freedom-loving citizens who put country first, party second. Not in many decades has that vigilance been required as it is required now. > Your hand may hesitate to put a mark beside the name, Hillary Clinton. You’re not doing it for her. The vote you cast is for the republic and the Constitution. * https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/dont-gamble-on-trump/506207/ https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...

JeremyNT 9mo ago

The left / right split isn't really meaningful in the United States right now. The split is currently between people who believe in and want a functional and equitable government, and those who are fine with a kleptocracy as long as they are personally the beneficiaries (or at least, the people they dislike suffer worse). People like Frum were quick to notice this and get on the correct side of it. Unfortunately, there are not enough Republicans who feel the same way to make much of a difference.

atomic_reed 9mo ago
[flagged]
- deinonychus 9mo ago
  Are you okay? Is this an AI experiment?
  - atomic_reed 9mo ago
    This is an anti-AI experiment amigo. My tokens bring all the boys to the yard...because they are less predictable. And no, I am not ok. My facts are rooted in what I daydream of.
tstrimple 9mo ago
It must just be a coincidence that literally everyone supporting this is on the right politically. Isn't this sort of weasel wording part of the problem? Conservative voters are the problem. Full stop. Without them, there is no Trump.
- mindslight 9mo ago
  nit: Fascist voters who think of themselves as "conservative" are the problem. Actual conservatives wouldn't support Trump attacking institution after institution, both domestic and international. My point isn't to defend the behavior of the people who have called themselves conservative for the past ~forty years. Rather it's meant to reclaim the term for what has now clearly become the middle of the Overton window. For example, never before having voted for a major party candidate in a national race in my whole life, I voted Biden in 2020 and Harris 2024. I consider these solidly conservative votes, and partially attribute them to my getting older and more conservative.
  - tstrimple 9mo ago
    > Actual conservatives wouldn't support Trump It's quite honestly amazing how much conservative propaganda has warped the liberal mind. So many liberals actually believe that conservatives just want a slow measured pace of change and to balance budgets, but that's literally never been what they have actually legislated for or accomplished. Liberals are the only people in my lifetime who have actually held those values. They are also the only ones who believe conservatives hold those values. Conservative's know better. And they demonstrated it with their vote. You can no-true-Scotsman until you're blue. There has literally never been a time in this nations history when that was an accurate depiction of conservatives. Consistently throughout this country's history, conservatives rally to oppose rights being shared with a broader group of people. Conservatives fought a civil war to maintain slavery. They fought for Jim Crow laws. They fought against anti-miscegenation laws. They fought against women's right to vote. They fought and are still fighting against gay rights and recognizing trans people as humans. Literally every single time there is a minority "at risk" of having a better lot in life, there are conservatives turning out to fight against it. When the fuck will you give up the benefit of the doubt on conservatives?